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boondocksaint1811
Joined: 04 Jan 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Chesapeake, VA
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: Chilling Fast vs. Slow? |
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I have a Kal clone set up and use the same CFC chiller recommended on the website. My usual set up is to use my old immersion chiller in a bucket with ice/water and run the water from the sink - through the immersion chiller (in ice water) - then through the CFC - and back to the sink to drain.
And, yes I run the wort from the BK through the pump and through the CFC.
My brew buddy and I have been having a disagreement about the flow rate of both the water and wort and which is more efficient. He wants to run the wort much faster and recirc back through the BK; while the water is running full blast. I feel like slowing the wort way down and running it through (once) is the way to go.
I know on the Brew Day Step By Step section, Kal recommends running it through once and straight into the fermentor.
Should the flow rates match? Is there a benefit or potential issues with one over the other (fast vs slow)?
Cheers all!
*If this topic has already been litigated, please feel free to point me in that direction!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Chilling Fast vs. Slow? |
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boondocksaint1811 wrote: | My brew buddy and I have been having a disagreement about the flow rate of both the water and wort and which is more efficient. He wants to run the wort much faster and recirc back through the BK; while the water is running full blast. I feel like slowing the wort way down and running it through (once) is the way to go. |
Measure and see! That's the best way to know what works best for what you want to do.
That said, depends on what you're looking for. Like a lot of things about brewing, I don't think there's one answer to what's best. Sometimes I want to chill as fast as possible to below 80F to lock in late hop additions flavours/aromas (think pale ales, IPAs). I want to limit steep time which turns the hop oils into bitterness. Sometimes I'm in less of a hurry because it's a lager with only a 60-90 min addition where all the oils have already been converted so I choose to chill slower to lower the temp as much as possible, as close to 50F fermentation temp as I can so that my fermenting fridges have less work to do.
I do mention this in my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP where I write:
Quote: | While not a factor in this Blonde Ale recipe, not having to wait before chilling helps maximize the late addition bright hop flavours and aromas found in many beers such as IPAs. Steeping hops at near boiling temperatures after the boil continues to turn these flavours and aromas into bitterness which is something we usually do not want with IPAs or other hop forward beers. Because of this, we chill hop forward beers as quickly as possible, do not whirlpool, and do not steep at near boiling temperatures. Chill speed is less of a concern with beers that only include a single 60 minute bittering addition (such as this recipe) as all of the hop alpha acids will have already been isomerized iso-alpha acids creating bitterness. |
So depends on your equipment, depends on your beer, depends on your goals. There's no one right or wrong answer.
Cheers!
Kal
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boondocksaint1811
Joined: 04 Jan 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Chesapeake, VA
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Kal. I guess I was always under the impression that it was important to chill the wort quickly to pitching temp regardless of the style.
Cheers.
_________________ In dog beers, I've only had one!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed! Always best to chill as fast as possible. I still always do a one-pass and the time difference between fast and slow I mention above is not great.
I thought your question was asking which method would be fastest at chilling the entire batch from temp A to B out of the two ways you mentioned (run the wort fast and recirc back through the BK while the water is running full blast vs slowing the wort way down and running it through once), which is not something I can know based on the info provided. There are lots of unanswered variables here to know how long each would take to take the entire volume of beer from temp A down to temp B so the best way would be to simply time the two methods and see.
Now I do prefer a single pass (I use a CFC) because it's actually chilling a small portion at a time almost instantaneously from temp A (usually close to boiling) down to temp B instead of slowing doing the whole batch. This almost instant drop is best to maximize cold break. You're basically chilling small "portions" in a split second as it passes through the CFC instead of over 15-20+ minutes as you slowly chill the entire batch.
This rapid almost instantaneous chilling maximizes cold break (the fluffy cloudlike material that precipitate out of solution and is mostly malt proteins, hop matter, and malt tannins). This separation is a good thing and is one of the reasons why I chill quickly in a single pass. If the wort is cooled too slowly cold break will not come out of solution which may result in a hazy beer (called 'chill haze') once it is refrigerated for serving. While purposely hazy New England style beers like our Electric Hop Candy and Electric Creamsicle are certainly not new, chill haze is still something brewers should try and avoid as the lack of a good cold break during chilling can cause long term stability problems.
My 2 cents!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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KB
Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Posts: 334 Location: Virginia
Working on: Next brew
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Link Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I've brewed 26 batches using my EB. I have discovered thru use the chilled water (get as cold as possible) should run faster than the flow of the wort to quickly and properly chill.
I use the HLT with water and ice to supply the chilled water to the wort chiller (thru the water pump). Add water and ice as needed.
A thermometer on the output of the wort chiller helps to control, at least for me, the flow. Too high temp output, slow down the wort. A very low temp wort output, it's probably OK to speed up the wort flow a bit.
Hope this helps.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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KB wrote: | A thermometer on the output of the wort chiller helps to control, at least for me, the flow. Too high temp output, slow down the wort. A very low temp wort output, it's probably OK to speed up the wort flow a bit. |
This is what I document in my design: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/pumps
Then in use it's described here like KB mentions (minus the chilling with ice in the HLT part): https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step#STEP_9_Chill
The valve on the pump output is use to control the flow rate.
To be clear however, you're not changing the flow speed but the flow rate (the volume of fluid per unit time flowing past a point through the area), but that's likely what you mean. To actually change the speed you'd need to speed up or slow down the pump which we don't do - the pump spins at the same speed all the time
Cheers!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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