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Walts Malt
Joined: 27 Sep 2013 Posts: 119 Location: Farmington, MN
Drinking: Two Hearted Clone
Working on: Planning my Fall Brewing Schedule
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:38 pm Post subject: Whirlpool vs. Dry Hop |
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First of all, I was very happy to have my electric brewery yesterday as it was below 0F here in Minnesota. Great to be brewery in shorts in a 72F basement.
Yesterday I brewed an NE IPA that called for whirlpool hops. Citra/Mosaic/Azacca in three doses at 40, 30 and 20 minutes of whirlpool time. The beer also calls for two dry hops during fermentation with a equal mix of the three hops at 5 days and 8 days into fermentation.
I’ve brewed the beer before and really enjoyed it. What I’m wondering is are the whirlpool hops worth it vs. just adding more to dry hops. I don’t have a feeling either way, just got to thinking about it yesterday.
I’m asking this question here in this forum as I think most will understand how easy and effective it is to whirlpool with this system. I suspect that an Electric Brewery setup will hold temps and recirculate better than other systems out there. Other systems may not be able to replicate what this system can do.
Kal, have you done any experiments on whirlpool vs dry hops? Personal preference?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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How hop oils are extracted will change based on time and temperature. So the results of steeping at near boiling temperature (212F) right after the boil is different from doing a steep at 170-180F and also different from doing it at fermentation temperature (50-75F) which is called dry hopping. Many beers (including mine) that are hop forward will have kettle, post-kettle steel, and dry hops. That's because the results are different. You shouldn't have a preference. They are not one or the other.
Note that you don't specifically need to "whirlpool" the hops (spin them quickly). In brewing they're called whirlpool hops by some simply because they add the hops right before they whirlpool. Whirlpooling is a method used to separate debris (mostly hop pellets and trub) from wort after the boil. Unfortunately this term is completely misunderstood by many brewers. They see "whirlpool" and think that therefore the hops need to be spun quickly. That is not true. Check out my article about it here on why whirlpooling isn't needed or even wanted sometimes (the downsides): https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/the-case-against-whirlpooling
The short answer is that the hops do not need to be in motion (whirlpool) for hop aromatics to be extracted. It’s a function of temperature and time, not motion. Many will add hops as they whirlpool which is fine of course, but the wort doesn’t need to be spinning for hop aromatics to be extracted. In fact, if you do not whirlpool you can start chilling immediately so you can get more late addition hop aromatics locked in instead of being forced to steep the hops which turns aromatics into bitterness. If you steep hops at near boiling (212F) much of the aromatics will be changed to bitterness, just like a regular boil. This is why in some of my recipes I mention lowering the boil kettle temp after boil down to 170-180F before adding steeping hops. In other case I say to add hops to the kettle right after the boil and start chilling immediately.
Check out this recipe (for example) and read the "WHAT MAKES AN IPA A 'NEW ENGLAND' IPA?" section:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/electric-hop-candy-new-england-ipa-neipa
Or this one where I was experimenting and took the steeping (called a 'hop stand') to the extreme:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/electric-hop-stand-pale-ale
So you can steep hops at different temps from boiling (212F) all the way down to serving temp (as low as 35F or so). The results will be different. You can't replace kettle hops with more dry hopping or vice versa. It doesn't work that way. Also depends on the hop and its oil compounds. Different hops will behave differently. There's no one answer. Feel free to try some of your favourite recipes various ways and see what you prefer.
Cheers!
Kal
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homedown
Joined: 28 Dec 2021 Posts: 5 Location: Florida
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | How hop oils are extracted will change based on time and temperature. So the results of steeping at near boiling temperature (212F) right after the boil is different from doing a steep at 170-180F and also different from doing it at fermentation temperature (50-75F) which is called dry hopping. Many beers (including mine) that are hop forward will have kettle, post-kettle steel, and dry hops. That's because the results are different. You shouldn't have a preference. They are not one or the other.
Note that you don't specifically need to "whirlpool" the hops (spin them quickly). In brewing they're called whirlpool hops by some simply because they add the hops right before they whirlpool. Whirlpooling is a method used to separate debris (mostly hop pellets and trub) from wort after the boil. Unfortunately this term is completely misunderstood by many brewers. They see "whirlpool" and think that therefore the hops need to be spun quickly. That is not true. Check out my article about it here on why whirlpooling isn't needed or even wanted sometimes (the downsides): https://abs-commercial.com/10-bbl-brewhouse/
The short answer is that the hops do not need to be in motion (whirlpool) for hop aromatics to be extracted. It’s a function of temperature and time, not motion. Many will add hops as they whirlpool which is fine of course, but the wort doesn’t need to be spinning for hop aromatics to be extracted. In fact, if you do not whirlpool you can start chilling immediately so you can get more late addition hop aromatics locked in instead of being forced to steep the hops which turns aromatics into bitterness. If you steep hops at near boiling (212F) much of the aromatics will be changed to bitterness, just like a regular boil. This is why in some of my recipes I mention lowering the boil kettle temp after boil down to 170-180F before adding steeping hops. In other case I say to add hops to the kettle right after the boil and start chilling immediately.
Check out this recipe (for example) and read the "WHAT MAKES AN IPA A 'NEW ENGLAND' IPA?" section:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/electric-hop-candy-new-england-ipa-neipa
Or this one where I was experimenting and took the steeping (called a 'hop stand') to the extreme:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/electric-hop-stand-pale-ale
So you can steep hops at different temps from boiling (212F) all the way down to serving temp (as low as 35F or so). The results will be different. You can't replace kettle hops with more dry hopping or vice versa. It doesn't work that way. Also depends on the hop and its oil compounds. Different hops will behave differently. There's no one answer. Feel free to try some of your favourite recipes various ways and see what you prefer.
Cheers!
Kal |
Wow, thanks for all this detailed info Kal. I clicked on one of your links and the next think I know I'm learning about hop stands, which I'd never heard of before. I have so much to learn, there is some great stuff here.
Last edited by homedown on Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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