True 3 phase control panel - 400v

Wannabee_electric · Joined: 06 Nov 2020 Posts: 2

All,

I have been lurking around the forum for some time now looking at all the great creations that have been made (supported by the great Kal of course) and I really want to get stuck in building my own. To shortly introduce myself, I am an avid homebrewer from the Netherlands which is a great country to life in and close to Belgium and Germany which are of course classic beer countries.

The not so nice thing about living in the Netherlands is that the residential limitation on the grid is 16amp single phase at 220-240V which implies that the max heating element will be in 3700W range...and if you use that you have to brew without the lights on the keep the fuse from blowing.

The good thing is, that most of the homes can easily get access to what we will call "power current", which is a 3 - phase system to still use higher wattage equipment in the house like for example high end ovens, induction cooking plates and a spa.

Now those are all very nice to have but what I need to have is a homebrewery of course. Now it is the case that we are building our own house and my wife and me agreed that she could have her walk-in closet if I could have my own brew-sement (a brewery in the basement). Although the impact on the monthly cashflow is still something to be cleared up between us, I am in the planning phase of my own brewery for which I have my eyes set on a 3-vessel eHERMS with 20G pots so I can fill two corny keggs with a brew (one for the brew-sement keezer and one for the garden keezer).

Which brings me back to the limitations and options of our residential grid. To get an (even) long(er) story short, I am looking for help with the design of a 3-phase / 400V control panel to which I can connect two 5500W elements and have the same look and feel as Kal's system. The problem here is that I scoured the internet but only very few comments on true 400v - 3-phase systems. Sure you can think about switching the contactors to 4-pole contactors and replacing the SSR's with 3 phase SSR's but my thought train here is "why has nobody done this on the whole internet" or at least haven't spoken about it publicly.

In terms of safety, I have a sparky on retainer for the house so he will for sure check the panel before it goes up so don't worry about that (although the cares are appreciated) but I want to make him proud in some weird way (and I like to say "I built that".

So if anybody has a schematic laying around or willing to help a fellow brewer out, please shout and thanks in advance

Brew-on

Mug

**kal** · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject:

Replacing all power components with 3-phase parts is certainly possible - hardest is probably finding 3-phase heating elements. They are basically 3 heating elements in one (6 connection points instead of 2) and look like this:

Cleaning would be a pain. You're almost forced to go with CIP and use something more caustic.

I suppose you could also use 3 lower power single phase elements separately too but you need lots of room in a kettle to fit 3 in, never mind again how that makes cleaning harder.

Good luck!

Kal

Wannabee_electric · Joined: 06 Nov 2020 Posts: 2

Thanks as always Kal, I have furthered my thoughts on this and have started to set up a wiring diagram and a parts list. Quick question can I ask you (or somebody else reading this) for advice on a proper 3 phase contactor to use? Clearly I have found some on the internet but they look so different that i am a bit unsure which one to add to the list. Thanks again

**kal** · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:04 pm Post subject:

The proper 3-phase contactor to use would be whatever matches your requirements, your electrical system and whatever you're looking to accomplish. The parts must work correctly and safely together with other parts. Sorry, but I can't really be more specific than that as I can't get into detailed custom design on systems as I simply do not have the time for that.

Kal

barney the bear · Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden

I live in Sweden so the three-phase 400V situation is very familiar to me.

There is a Swedish saying "Why cross the river looking for water?". These guys have some three-phase equipment in the their homebrewstore (elements, SSR etc.). They are situated in the Netherlands.

barney the bear · Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden

Sorry, I forgot the link.

https://www.brewpi.com/