|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Tomattwohawks
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 5
|
 Link Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: Consistently low mash temps |
 |
|
|
Can anyone give some advice on constantly low mad temps. I’ve tried increasing flow, decreasing flow through the herms coil but my mash temps are always low.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KB
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia
Working on: Next brew
|
| Link Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kal,
I have the same issue. I'm a bit confused as in the prior post you state "Calibrate both the MLT and HLT temp probes per the instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup"
whereas the Control Panel (Setup) instructions state "Auto tuning is not required for the Mash/Lauter Tun PID."
Which statement is correct?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KB
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia
Working on: Next brew
|
| Link Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I'll probably re-calibrate and do the auto-tuning as there was a 10F difference between the HLT and the MLT during my most recent brew. In the prior 21 brews using my electric brewery the difference between the HLT and MLT was 2 to 3F.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
| Link Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KB wrote: | | I'll probably re-calibrate and do the auto-tuning as there was a 10F difference between the HLT and the MLT during my most recent brew. In the prior 21 brews using my electric brewery the difference between the HLT and MLT was 2 to 3F. |
It's odd that in the past you've had a 2-3 degree offset between what you set with the HLT and what you measure in the MLT, and that all of a sudden that jumped to 10F.
I'm assuming you mean the temperatures displayed on the HLT and MLT PIDs, and that you're not measuring with an external thermometer or temperature probe.
If that's the case, that new offset wouldn't have anything to do with calibrating the temperature probes unless all of a sudden there's a bad connection somewhere causing extra resistance or similar which is causing the HLT or MLT temp displayed being off. Definitely best to double check that both MLT and HLT probes are reading accurately.
It wouldn't however have anything to do auto-tuning. Auto-tuning only affects the HLT. From the instructions:
"The Hot Liquor Tank PID can be taught the heating and cooling characteristics of your setup and be tuned to provide more precise temperature control by performing an auto tune. This sets the P, I, and D values in the PID controller. In most cases the values listed above will work fine on brewing setups so we recommend that initially auto tuning be skipped. If your setup is considerably different from our design and after the first few uses you find that the Hot Liquor Tank temperature rises slightly higher or drops lower than the temperature you set, consider performing an auto tune."
See the part in bold. Auto-turning is only required if you set the HLT PID to a temperature (the lower green SV) value and measured temperature on the HLT PID (the upper red PV number) never stabilizes at that desired temp. The MLT displayed temp is not related at all or relevant to auto-tuning
If your HLT to MLT offset changed from 2-3 to 10F for one batch and turns out both your MLT and HLT probes are set accurately, it's not the probes, PIDs, or anything to do with that. Odds are you simply weren't getting proper flow through the MLT to pick up heat in the HLT. Instead you were losing heat. You may have have had poor flow due to milling to fine or similar.
Kal
_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KB
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia
Working on: Next brew
|
| Link Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Milled the same as all the other brews (gap set at the recommended gap as per the EB instructions).
Do we need to somehow clean the MLT temp probe tip? I ask as each annual furnace check-up the technician removes and cleans the flame sensor tip. I realize the temp probe isn't the same as the furnace flame sensor, but got me thinking if a coating might build up over time on the MLT temp probe tip.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
| Link Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KB wrote: | | Do we need to somehow clean the MLT temp probe tip? |
No. At least not any more than just whatever you do when you clean your MLT. Doesn't matter if the MLT temp probe tip is dirty, the heat will still get through. Remember that the temp sensor is inside a stainless tube that is already separated from the actual wort who's temp it is measuring. Even if there's a slight layer of crud on the stainless, the sensor inside will still register heat (or cold).
I would double check for loose wiring or connections what that probe. A quick and easy way is to swap cables at various spots (a the control panel and at the probe tip) and see what happens.
A poor connection inside the probe tip connector may be causing it to not seat properly with the cable, increasing resistance.
The connection point between the temp probe cable and the stainless temp probe tip is likely damaged. It may be damage on either side or both sides.
This can happen if one is not careful when disconnecting/reconnecting the cable and the connectors are twisted and or turned when connecting them instead of lining up the tabs and pushing them together straight.
There’s a little tab you need to line up when you mate the two halves together. To connect/disconnect, the tabs need to be lined up and pushed together, they should NEVER BE TWISTED/TURNED. If you twist/turn them to make a connection you may damage one or both ends. Twisting/turning can pull apart the wires inside the connector.
You can test if it's the cable only end by swapping cables with one of the known working temperature probes as mentioned above. If swapping cables does not help I would recommend replacing the entire assembly (probe tip and cable).
Replacement cables as well as replacement cables with probe tips are available for order here:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/temperature-probes
If twisting/turning caused damage and you are handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to easily repair the probe yourself. Remove the four small screws from the back of the probe and slide the resistor and cable end out of the probe (you should not have to remove it from the pot or Tee). You will see one end of the resistor soldered to pin #2, and the other side soldered to either 1 or 3 with a jumper between the two. One of those points is most likely broken and/or making intermittent contact. A quick re-soldering is all that is needed.
If you need to get into the connector on the cable, plug the cable end into one of the probes to prevent it from spinning and rotate the winged portion counter clockwise, it will unscrew from the other section allowing you access to the connections. I would recommend de-soldering all 3 wires (if not already detached), trimming them back a little, and making sure there is a good solder connection.
Cheers,
Kal
_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KB
Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia
Working on: Next brew
|
| Link Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
On Saturday, December 5, 2020 I checked all 3 PIDs (HLT, MLT and BK) for the Sn, Pb and FILT values. I reset the Pb value back to 0 for the HLT as I had it set to 1.0. I used a QD with a T and an accurate analog dial thermometer after the value output on the HLT. I know the analog dial thermometer is accurate as I compared it with a Thermapen thermometer. This is the same QD, T and thermometer I normally use at the wort out on the wort chiller.
I set the HLT element to heat to 153F. As the PID display was rising I kept checking the analog dial thermometer. I had to set the HLT Pb = 0.5 Not bad.
When the HLT PID displayed 143F I pressed the SET button and went to AT. For some unknown reason AT was set to 1. I really don't know why. I expected AT to = 3 as per the auto tune instructions. I set At = 2 and let the auto run to finish. Once done I pressed the Set button and went to AT and this time AT = 3 as expected.
I'm still puzzled about the At = 1 setting.
I transferred some of the HLT hot water into the MLT. I moved the analog dial thermometer with QD and T to the out valve of the MLT. I then connected the pumps and hoses to take water from the MLT into the HLT and from the HLT into the MLT. I set the HLT element to 153F and turned on both pumps. I had to adjust the MLT Pb = 1.0 as it was off. Still 1.0 is not bad.
I'll know in a few weeks when a brew the EB California Common.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
Log in
Register
User Control Panel
Private Messages
Club Memberships
Search
Memberlist
Photo Albums
Forum FAQ
