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Hybrid system question

 
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E8ton



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: SE PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Hybrid system question Reply with quote


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Hey guys new to the form and 2 electric brewing I have been brewing with LP for 8 years now

I'm looking to make my system a hybrid and I was wondering if a 30 amp panel would be able to maintain a boil for 1BBL I'm not looking to bring to a boil was going to continue to use my LP set up for that but would like to be able to shut off the gas and maintain the boil with electric to cut down on heat in the summertime as it gets very hot in the garage

Thanks
Evan
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Evan,

Yes, no problems there. I know of many using a single 5500W element in the boil kettle producing 1 bbl.

Now that said, if you're going to go electric already, why bother with propane to get to boil? 50-80 of the heat of that flame bounces off the kettle and is adding to the heat in your garage. A heating element is submerged so 100% of the heat goes directly in the boil.

To save time you could do both I suppose: Heat with both propane and electric and then turn off the propane and enjoy the absolute silence of electric once at boil. Wink

Ideal would be to ditch propane ocmpletely and go with a 50A panel for 30+ gallons. See: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/control-panels

It would give you fast heat times, less heat in the air, and no noise at all.

Good luck!

Kal

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E8ton



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: SE PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your response KAL, we have been thinking of doing a full convertion to electric out budget just doesn't allow for it yet, we currently have a 3 vessel LP single tier with 2 banjos and 1 600k jet tip which is where most all that heat and nois comes from.

My main thought of doing the hybrid is i found one of your 30A diy kits forsale unopened for a reasonable price as he didn't have time to build and bought the turn key 30A panel. And i was thinking i could upgrade the internals later as the budget alowes,

If upgrading the 30A to 50A expensive compared to the panel coast it self?



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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E8ton wrote:
My main thought of doing the hybrid is i found one of your 30A diy kits forsale unopened for a reasonable price as he didn't have time to build and bought the turn key 30A panel. And i was thinking i could upgrade the internals later as the budget alowes,

If upgrading the 30A to 50A expensive compared to the panel coast it self?


It's not obvious or easy to upgrade from a 30A panel to 50A panel for 30+ gallons. You'd need to gut and replace the high power items and rewire. There are more parts and bigger parts in the 50A panel so you'd have to leave room ahead of time for those extra parts too otherwise you're looking at completely removing everything to make room for the extra items as you re-arrange. Not an obvious task as without the parts in hand it's hard to figure out how much room to leave.

The bottom of the enclosure is the other issue - see the picture below.

Standard 30A Electric Brewery panel


50A Electric Brewery panel for 30+ gallons


There are two extra heating element receptacles on the bottom of the 50A enclosure. If you use one of the 30A kits with the enclosure pre-punched there is no easy way to add later. There's not enough room on the bottom. You may be able to figure out a way to add them on the side or you would need to replace the enclosure: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/electric-brewery-control-panel-enclosures/products/16x16x8-enclosure-pre-punched-and-painted-for-50a-control-panel-for-30-gallons
Replacing the enclosure requires a complete re-wiring job from the ground up.

If the 30A kit doesn't come with a pre-punched enclosure then make sure to punch two extra holes ahead of time for when it becomes a 50A panel. You can't punch holes after you've installed parts as metal bits get everywhere and can get into the electrical parts.

Long story short, I don't know anyone who's actually attempted this successfully.

I'd recommend our 50A Electric Brewery control panel for 30+ gallons (DIY Kit) today if that's where you want to end up: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/control-panels

You can use it only 2 heating elements for now and add two more if you want to upgrade in the future.
Externally the 50A control panel has identical functionality to our 30A panel, just twice the capacity for heating elements.

Most that want to end up with the 50A panel purchase that ahead of time. Or sell the 30A to fund buying a 50A.

Good luck!

Kal

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E8ton



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: SE PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the info, sounds like its worth saving for the 50A panel in the long run
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the day that's completely up to you of course! But I think most people would agree that it's not obvious going from 30A to 50A unless you don't mind a lot of extra work. Cheers!

Kal

_________________
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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E8ton



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: SE PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well out of curiosity how much would the upgrade parts coast? I wouldn't mind the extra work but if the upgrade parts are not to bad i could get this 30A DIY with unpunched thats forsale and maybe be able to afford to build a 50A from the start
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A complete breakdown of the parts required to do this is not something we've ever done I'm afraid.
You'd probably be looking at a few dozen parts plus a bunch of wiring and other tie-in parts.

The 50A Electric Brewery Control Panel for 30+ gallon build FAQ is here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24918

It lists all the part changes required. You'd have to go through the list and add up the numbers.
If you need a new enclosure you'd have to include that as well. There would also be a bunch of new wiring needed (6 ga, 10 ga, some 14 ga, various colours). Unknown how much you'd need as a retrofit like this is not something we've ever planned out. Sorry!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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E8ton



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 5
Location: SE PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a problem just exploring options thank you for all your information
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with your conversion to electric!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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