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First RO water profile - EZ Water question

 
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m1chaelroth



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 5
Location: Fargo


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: First RO water profile - EZ Water question Reply with quote


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Hi folks,

I have a water question. My brewery (Kal Clone) is almost complete and i'm hoping to start my first brew soon. Unfortunately, since my water is horrid, I'm forced to use RO water. This also means i'll need to figure out how to work out my water profile. I've been messing around with EZ water and set it up exactly like this site has for the Blonde ale (Brew Day: Step by Step). Can someone take a look and see if i've set this up correctly?

Kal recommends:

Water treated with brewing salts to: Ca=50, Mg=10, Na=16, Cl=70, S04=70

I've come as close as I can but noticed that the Lactic Acid addition is at 6 ml and everything I've read states it shouldnt take more than 2 ml. Is this normal for RO water?? Complete additions from EZ water are below:

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 0
Mg: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 0
SO4: 0
HCO3: 0

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 7.47 / 9.59
RO or distilled %: 100% / 100%

Total Grain (lb): 18.0

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 1 / 1.283801874
CaCl2: 5 / 6.419009371
MgSO4: 4 / 5.135207497
NaHCO3: 1.5 / 1.925702811
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 6
Sauermalz (oz): 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 56 / 56
Mg: 13 / 13
Na: 15 / 15
Cl: 85 / 85
SO4: 75 / 75
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.14 / 1.14

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -217
RA: -265
Estimated pH: 5.44
(room temp)

Sorry to be such a newb on this but I'd like my first brew day to be a good one. Smile Thanks in advance to any comments!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9844
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: First RO water profile - EZ Water question Reply with quote

m1chaelroth wrote:
I've come as close as I can but noticed that the Lactic Acid addition is at 6 ml and everything I've read states it shouldnt take more than 2 ml. Is this normal for RO water??

Lactic Acid is only added to lower mash pH. Ignore the mash pH estimator in EZWater. From my water adjustment guide:

Quote:
Steps 2 and 3 of EZWaterCalculator attempt to estimate your residual alkalinity (RA) and mash pH based on the grain used, the starting alkalinity of your water, and acids that you may add. We recommend skipping over these directly to Step 4. We don't care about the RA (more information below) and pH estimators are notoriously inaccurate due to the complexity of the calculations and the number of variables involved. Instead, we will later use a pH meter to take actual pH measurements and adjust if required. The mash is only one of many places where pH is important, so a pH meter is a handy tool to have.


See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment?page=5

Good luck!

Kal

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Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 726
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do not add acid to RO water your ph wil be 0 or close so acid is not needed
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9844
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
do not add acid to RO water your ph wil be 0 or close so acid is not needed

That is incorrect. Pure water has a neutral pH of 7. RO water as it is exposed to air is usually slightly lower, around 5-6 pH but still around the neutral point of 7. Remember that pH goes from 0 to 14 where 7 is neutral.

A pH of 0 would be like battery acid.



See the Wikipedia article on pH: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH

Kal

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Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 726
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was always told that RO is actually 5 and that no acid is needed of course that really depends on if it's actually RO or not, that's a pretty general term these days
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Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 726
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I shouldn't have said 0 but related to what you need in a beer 5.2 to 5.4 is normal so 5 would be 0 if that makes since
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9844
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
I was always told that RO is actually 5 and that no acid is needed of course...

Ignore the starting pH of the water you use in brewing. It's not what matters. It's how the water reacts to adding grain and other things that matters. That's called alkalinity. Alkalinity is how effectively water is able to resist a change in pH.

For example, my city water has a very high pH of around 9.3 but it has very low alkalinity (because it's very soft/low in minerals) which means when I throw any amount of grain in the pH drops easily.

Some people on the other hand have hard well water that is chock full of minerals and has high alkalinity. Even if the water has a more neutral pH like 7, it may not react much and drop as you add grain as the water resists change in pH.

Long story short: Ignore the pH of your water.

See my water adjustment article: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment

Kal

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JMD887



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 101
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Electric IPA, TOF IPA

Working on: Irish Red Ale


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:


For example, my city water has a very high pH of around 9.3 but it has very low alkalinity (because it's very soft/low in minerals) which means when I throw any amount of grain in the pH drops easily.

Some people on the other hand have hard well water that is chock full of minerals and has high alkalinity. Even if the water has a more neutral pH like 7, it may not react much and drop as you add grain as the water resists change in pH.

Long story short: Ignore the pH of your water.


Kal


Ive stopped trying to understand the concept of residual alkalinity to the point that some of these water adjustment spreadsheets take it. Simply because its just a lot easier to check the pH and correct it than it; than it is to work the spreadsheets to get an amount of an acid addition (which from my experience has been wrong the few times I've done so).

I can see where this concept my be more helpful on a much larger scale of production- inset nano brewery/ production brewery; but the steps Kal has written up are quick and easy!

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