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kettle advice

 
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corboman




Joined: 16 Aug 2018
Posts: 2
Location: Houston, TX


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:54 am    Post subject: kettle advice Reply with quote


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Hello,

TL/DR: most electric setups use kettles with the 1.2 ratio. Could I have an effective set up with more beer kettles that have a different geometry ratio? https://tinyurl.com/y8mx3q88 As you can see, the pots are shorter, and wider than say a boilermaker, or spikes, or SS brew tech.

Currently my set up is a 2 tier direct fire 8 gal boil kettle with 10 gal cooler MLT. I really want to add a 15 gal kettle to the mix and make that the new boil kettle and make my current BK the HLT. I'm strongly leaning to the More Beer kettles https://tinyurl.com/y8mx3q88 for this expansion. I think these would be great for direct fire as they would get to temp quicker due to optimal surface area. And they are a bargain. But I know I may have to change set ups to electrical in the next couple of years. I live in a rental with cheap natural gas at disposal, but that could change in a year or two and I would rather go electric than deal with propane again.
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Master




Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 171
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic

Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The larger surface area vs volume tends to have a higher boil off rate. Nothing you can't calculate and adjust for.

Flip side, my Keggle based boiler has a lower boil off rate at a given power setting than the 1.2 kettle it replaced.
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corboman




Joined: 16 Aug 2018
Posts: 2
Location: Houston, TX


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking it wouldn't be a problem, I just wanted to double check. Thanks!
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CHB




Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: kettle advice Reply with quote

corboman wrote:
Hello,

TL/DR: most electric setups use kettles with the 1.2 ratio. Could I have an effective set up with more beer kettles that have a different geometry ratio?....


I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )

Thoughts?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: kettle advice Reply with quote

CHB wrote:
I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )

Thoughts?

I think you're asking if you can still boil effectively if you double your volume?

11000 watts of power is enough to effectively boil 2-3 bbl (31-93 gallons) and possibly more depending on kettle configuration/insulation, ambient temperature, use of a kettle chimney, etc. For some examples, take a look at our testimonials page where we show some running this panel on various sized setups up to and including 3.5 bbl. See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/testimonials

The larger the volume, the longer it takes to heat up and get to boil. The more power you have, the faster you can heat water or wort. There are online calculators available that you can plug numbers into to see what sort of power you would require to heat in the amount of time you deem acceptable. Here are a few examples:

http://www.brewheads.com/powerrequired.php
http://www.brewheads.com/rise.php

Using the second link, 11000W of power would heat 3 bbl (93 gallons) at a rate of 0.77 degrees per minute, and 2 bbl (62 gallons) at a rate of 1.15 degrees per minute.

Really tall vessels can be a pain to clean however.

Kal

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CHB




Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: kettle advice Reply with quote

kal wrote:
CHB wrote:
I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )

Thoughts?

I think you're asking if you can still boil effectively if you double your volume?

...

Really tall vessels can be a pain to clean however.

Kal
Ha! Yes, there is that. Funny, I was worried about the effectiveness of the boil and didn't get as far as clean-up. Possibly I need to re-think this one!
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wscottcross




Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 212
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was a pro brewer, I used to do 1 BBL batches (43 gal boil) and to hit a solid boil I had to set the panel to 75-80% on both elements. That was with a 50 gal kettle and no chimney, so it may be possible to get there with much larger kettles, but it will take much longer. I was actually considering adding a 3rd element on a dedicated circuit with a simple on/off switch as a booster if I was going to to larger batches. Otherwise, you need patience and the willingness to put in longer brew days.
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CHB




Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross wrote:
When I was a pro brewer, I used to do 1 BBL batches (43 gal boil) and to hit a solid boil I had to set the panel to 75-80% on both elements. That was with a 50 gal kettle and no chimney, so it may be possible to get there with much larger kettles, but it will take much longer. I was actually considering adding a 3rd element on a dedicated circuit with a simple on/off switch as a booster if I was going to to larger batches. Otherwise, you need patience and the willingness to put in longer brew days.
Good to know, thanks for the input. This doubling of capacity (in my mind) is only a temporary solution anyway. I've devised a gasket and clamp system to attach the barrels not unlike the extension on a Blichman Ferminator, so the cleaning will be easy enough -- or the same (to Kal's point). But in the end, as you point out, it's the time required within the constraints.
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross wrote:
When I was a pro brewer


You no longer brewing at Fat Orange Cat Brew Co?

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