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corboman
Joined: 16 Aug 2018 Posts: 2 Location: Houston, TX
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Link Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:54 am Post subject: kettle advice |
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Hello,
TL/DR: most electric setups use kettles with the 1.2 ratio. Could I have an effective set up with more beer kettles that have a different geometry ratio? https://tinyurl.com/y8mx3q88 As you can see, the pots are shorter, and wider than say a boilermaker, or spikes, or SS brew tech.
Currently my set up is a 2 tier direct fire 8 gal boil kettle with 10 gal cooler MLT. I really want to add a 15 gal kettle to the mix and make that the new boil kettle and make my current BK the HLT. I'm strongly leaning to the More Beer kettles https://tinyurl.com/y8mx3q88 for this expansion. I think these would be great for direct fire as they would get to temp quicker due to optimal surface area. And they are a bargain. But I know I may have to change set ups to electrical in the next couple of years. I live in a rental with cheap natural gas at disposal, but that could change in a year or two and I would rather go electric than deal with propane again.
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Master
Joined: 30 Jan 2016 Posts: 171 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic
Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.
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Link Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:05 am Post subject: |
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The larger surface area vs volume tends to have a higher boil off rate. Nothing you can't calculate and adjust for.
Flip side, my Keggle based boiler has a lower boil off rate at a given power setting than the 1.2 kettle it replaced.
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corboman
Joined: 16 Aug 2018 Posts: 2 Location: Houston, TX
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Link Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:13 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking it wouldn't be a problem, I just wanted to double check. Thanks!
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CHB
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 7
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: kettle advice |
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corboman wrote: | Hello,
TL/DR: most electric setups use kettles with the 1.2 ratio. Could I have an effective set up with more beer kettles that have a different geometry ratio?.... |
I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )
Thoughts?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: kettle advice |
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CHB wrote: | I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )
Thoughts? |
I think you're asking if you can still boil effectively if you double your volume?
11000 watts of power is enough to effectively boil 2-3 bbl (31-93 gallons) and possibly more depending on kettle configuration/insulation, ambient temperature, use of a kettle chimney, etc. For some examples, take a look at our testimonials page where we show some running this panel on various sized setups up to and including 3.5 bbl. See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/testimonials
The larger the volume, the longer it takes to heat up and get to boil. The more power you have, the faster you can heat water or wort. There are online calculators available that you can plug numbers into to see what sort of power you would require to heat in the amount of time you deem acceptable. Here are a few examples:
http://www.brewheads.com/powerrequired.php
http://www.brewheads.com/rise.php
Using the second link, 11000W of power would heat 3 bbl (93 gallons) at a rate of 0.77 degrees per minute, and 2 bbl (62 gallons) at a rate of 1.15 degrees per minute.
Really tall vessels can be a pain to clean however.
Kal
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CHB
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 7
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: kettle advice |
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kal wrote: | CHB wrote: | I had the same question, but from a different angle. I've got 3 SS 55g barrels with 2 5500w elements in the BK and HLT each. I can get 45 gallons out of session, but it's a bit of a stretch takes a lot of effort -- 40gal is easier. My question is: can my elements support a doubling of the BK and HLT -- meaning, if I weld barrels on top taking the BK and HLT vertical? I know this is a math problem associated with surface area, volume, time, etc ... but before I dug into this too much, I figured I'm not the first person to wonder this. (and of course I'm just lazy enough not to scour the forum for old posts on this) : )
Thoughts? |
I think you're asking if you can still boil effectively if you double your volume?
...
Really tall vessels can be a pain to clean however.
Kal | Ha! Yes, there is that. Funny, I was worried about the effectiveness of the boil and didn't get as far as clean-up. Possibly I need to re-think this one!
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wscottcross
Joined: 03 Jul 2015 Posts: 212 Location: CT
Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout
Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)
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Link Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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When I was a pro brewer, I used to do 1 BBL batches (43 gal boil) and to hit a solid boil I had to set the panel to 75-80% on both elements. That was with a 50 gal kettle and no chimney, so it may be possible to get there with much larger kettles, but it will take much longer. I was actually considering adding a 3rd element on a dedicated circuit with a simple on/off switch as a booster if I was going to to larger batches. Otherwise, you need patience and the willingness to put in longer brew days.
_________________ Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
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CHB
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 7
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
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wscottcross wrote: | When I was a pro brewer, I used to do 1 BBL batches (43 gal boil) and to hit a solid boil I had to set the panel to 75-80% on both elements. That was with a 50 gal kettle and no chimney, so it may be possible to get there with much larger kettles, but it will take much longer. I was actually considering adding a 3rd element on a dedicated circuit with a simple on/off switch as a booster if I was going to to larger batches. Otherwise, you need patience and the willingness to put in longer brew days. | Good to know, thanks for the input. This doubling of capacity (in my mind) is only a temporary solution anyway. I've devised a gasket and clamp system to attach the barrels not unlike the extension on a Blichman Ferminator, so the cleaning will be easy enough -- or the same (to Kal's point). But in the end, as you point out, it's the time required within the constraints.
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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wscottcross wrote: | When I was a pro brewer |
You no longer brewing at Fat Orange Cat Brew Co?
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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