Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ


OG,FG, Efficiency

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Brewing Software
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dnierer




Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: OG,FG, Efficiency Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Someone please HELP!

What am I missing...

I found this interesting recipe in Beer & Brewing (see link below) and decide to brew it this past weekend. I plugged the recipe into Brewsfriend and the OG, FG and ABV were way off. I double checked everything including messing with brewhouse efficiency and nothing seemed to get me to the desired numbers published in the article. I proceed to brew the recipe and my OG came in at 1.069 just as the article indicated, so I decided maybe it was a Brewersfriend issue so I entered the recipe in Beer tools, it still did not give the same numbers as in the article, I moved on to Beersmith and again the numbers for OG, FG and ABV were way off.

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-slow-churn-milkshake-ipa/

The article indicates brewhouse efficiency of 90% and I my system is virtually identical to Kal's different kettles and custom false bottom, but I have account for all that and if I brew one of Kal's recipes the number work in Brewersfriend and I get the same outcome as Kal. So what am I missing for this particular recipe, beyond frustrated.

Thanks,
Dru
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: OG,FG, Efficiency Reply with quote

dnierer wrote:
I plugged the recipe into Brewsfriend and the OG, FG and ABV were way off.

What did you get?

It's odd that they'd list brewhouse efficiency instead of mash efficiency. Listing brewhouse efficiency is somewhat equipment dependant and irrelevant for sharing. Mash efficiency is what matters when it comes to sharing recipes. Or better yet, recipes should only list fermentables as percentages and let the brewer enter their mash efficiency to come up with the amounts. (I toyed with this myself for my recipes listed here but I think it's too confusing for new brewers).

That said, I assumed they really meant 90% mash efficiency and entered their numbers into BeerTools Pro for a 5 gallon batch:

6.8 lb (3.1 kg) Pilsner
1.7 lb (771 g) rolled oats
2.2 lb (998 g) white wheat
11 oz (312 g) honey malt

It gave me an OG of 1.069 just like the recipe. Seems to work for me. Not sure what you did.

Some extra info:

Software can't really calculate FG. It's not something you can really calculate ahead of time. Some software will maybe try and estimate based on your grist, your mash schedule, your yeast (maybe even pitch rate), and so forth but it's impossible to do accurately as it's horrendously complex. So ignore FG that software give you but look at what the recipe expects you to get. That's what's important. Then play with the attenuation % in your software to get to the FG they expect you to end up at. But again that doesn't mean it'll get exactly there. Someone who underpitches yeast (for example) may not end up there.

So because of the FG unknowns, ABV will also vary.

The only number you can really know ahead of time is OG. Keep in mind that OG can also vary the potential extract for the grain in question. All fermentables have different potential extract/max yield. For malt it can vary by brand, and even by lot, and so forth. In others words, 10 pounds of one maltsters pils malt may get you slightly more (or less) sugar than 10 pounds of another maltsters pils malt. It's usually pretty close however. If your software doesn't allow you to enter these and you don't know them (not all manufacturers print them on the bag) there can be some (usually subtle) differences even if you enter their grain amounts and mash efficiency numbers.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dnierer




Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I come up with 1.084 OG in Brewer's Friend, 1.084 in Beersmith , and 1.082 on Beertools

See attached snip-it from BeerTools, I set Mash efficiency at 90% and left attenuation at 75%



BeerToolsCapture.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  83.36 KB
 Viewed:  6117 Time(s)

BeerToolsCapture.JPG


Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That screenshot doesn't look like BeerTools (the software I use) but doesn't matter...
I completely missed the lactose however. When I throw that in my OG (assuming a mash efficiency of 90% and a 5 gallon post boil amount at 68F) jumps from 1.069 to 1.077. So doesn't match what they posted in their recipe. You'll need to ask whoever created the recipe what's going on as I can't explain it.

That said, your calculated OG seems higher still. Can you post a screenshot of BeerTools that shows the yeild from each fermentable?

Here's what I see:

6.8 lb (54.9%) Pilsner Malt (2.05L) - Adds 1.041 gravity
1.7 lb (13.7%) Oat Flakes - Adds 1.010 gravity
2.2 lb (17.8%) Pale Wheat Malt (2.05L) - Adds 1.014 gravity
11 oz (5.5%) Honey Malt - Adds 1.003 gravity
1 lb (8.1%) Lactose - Adds 1.009 gravity

(All assuming 5 gallons pre-boil at 68F, 90% mash efficiency)

See if any of those those gravity numbers are different for you.
If yes, that means the potential extract in your software is different from the actual fermentables used (as I mentioned in my previous post). 1.077 to 1.082/1084 is a fairly big jump however.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dnierer




Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I'm using the free BeerTools recipe calculator

https://www.beertools.com/tools/calculator.php

I already pay for BrewersFriend and didn't want to pay for a second one.

I can't find the gravity numbers in any of the 3 software tools.

In Brewers' Friend I have the following, (it doesn't show how much each component contributes in gravity points)



BFCapture.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  70.57 KB
 Viewed:  6105 Time(s)

BFCapture.JPG


Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dnierer wrote:
I can't find the gravity numbers in any of the 3 software tools.
In Brewers' Friend I have the following, (it doesn't show how much each component contributes in gravity points)

It does - see the OG value. You'll see that some are higher than mine, some are lower.
Still doesn't match what the recipe author mentions however. We're both quite a bit higher (you more than me).

I think the only way you'll know is to talk to the author directly to understand. I don't understand how they get 1.069 if mash efficiency is 90%.

Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dnierer




Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the sanity check I'm finding more recipes that are published in magazines just don't work out to the numbers they have published. I'm going to keep digging. Will definitely try to contact the author.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Brewing Software All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group