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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: OG,FG, Efficiency |
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Someone please HELP!
What am I missing...
I found this interesting recipe in Beer & Brewing (see link below) and decide to brew it this past weekend. I plugged the recipe into Brewsfriend and the OG, FG and ABV were way off. I double checked everything including messing with brewhouse efficiency and nothing seemed to get me to the desired numbers published in the article. I proceed to brew the recipe and my OG came in at 1.069 just as the article indicated, so I decided maybe it was a Brewersfriend issue so I entered the recipe in Beer tools, it still did not give the same numbers as in the article, I moved on to Beersmith and again the numbers for OG, FG and ABV were way off.
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-slow-churn-milkshake-ipa/
The article indicates brewhouse efficiency of 90% and I my system is virtually identical to Kal's different kettles and custom false bottom, but I have account for all that and if I brew one of Kal's recipes the number work in Brewersfriend and I get the same outcome as Kal. So what am I missing for this particular recipe, beyond frustrated.
Thanks,
Dru
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: OG,FG, Efficiency |
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dnierer wrote: | I plugged the recipe into Brewsfriend and the OG, FG and ABV were way off. |
What did you get?
It's odd that they'd list brewhouse efficiency instead of mash efficiency. Listing brewhouse efficiency is somewhat equipment dependant and irrelevant for sharing. Mash efficiency is what matters when it comes to sharing recipes. Or better yet, recipes should only list fermentables as percentages and let the brewer enter their mash efficiency to come up with the amounts. (I toyed with this myself for my recipes listed here but I think it's too confusing for new brewers).
That said, I assumed they really meant 90% mash efficiency and entered their numbers into BeerTools Pro for a 5 gallon batch:
6.8 lb (3.1 kg) Pilsner
1.7 lb (771 g) rolled oats
2.2 lb (998 g) white wheat
11 oz (312 g) honey malt
It gave me an OG of 1.069 just like the recipe. Seems to work for me. Not sure what you did.
Some extra info:
Software can't really calculate FG. It's not something you can really calculate ahead of time. Some software will maybe try and estimate based on your grist, your mash schedule, your yeast (maybe even pitch rate), and so forth but it's impossible to do accurately as it's horrendously complex. So ignore FG that software give you but look at what the recipe expects you to get. That's what's important. Then play with the attenuation % in your software to get to the FG they expect you to end up at. But again that doesn't mean it'll get exactly there. Someone who underpitches yeast (for example) may not end up there.
So because of the FG unknowns, ABV will also vary.
The only number you can really know ahead of time is OG. Keep in mind that OG can also vary the potential extract for the grain in question. All fermentables have different potential extract/max yield. For malt it can vary by brand, and even by lot, and so forth. In others words, 10 pounds of one maltsters pils malt may get you slightly more (or less) sugar than 10 pounds of another maltsters pils malt. It's usually pretty close however. If your software doesn't allow you to enter these and you don't know them (not all manufacturers print them on the bag) there can be some (usually subtle) differences even if you enter their grain amounts and mash efficiency numbers.
Kal
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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I come up with 1.084 OG in Brewer's Friend, 1.084 in Beersmith , and 1.082 on Beertools
See attached snip-it from BeerTools, I set Mash efficiency at 90% and left attenuation at 75%
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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That screenshot doesn't look like BeerTools (the software I use) but doesn't matter...
I completely missed the lactose however. When I throw that in my OG (assuming a mash efficiency of 90% and a 5 gallon post boil amount at 68F) jumps from 1.069 to 1.077. So doesn't match what they posted in their recipe. You'll need to ask whoever created the recipe what's going on as I can't explain it.
That said, your calculated OG seems higher still. Can you post a screenshot of BeerTools that shows the yeild from each fermentable?
Here's what I see:
6.8 lb (54.9%) Pilsner Malt (2.05L) - Adds 1.041 gravity
1.7 lb (13.7%) Oat Flakes - Adds 1.010 gravity
2.2 lb (17.8%) Pale Wheat Malt (2.05L) - Adds 1.014 gravity
11 oz (5.5%) Honey Malt - Adds 1.003 gravity
1 lb (8.1%) Lactose - Adds 1.009 gravity
(All assuming 5 gallons pre-boil at 68F, 90% mash efficiency)
See if any of those those gravity numbers are different for you.
If yes, that means the potential extract in your software is different from the actual fermentables used (as I mentioned in my previous post). 1.077 to 1.082/1084 is a fairly big jump however.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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so I'm using the free BeerTools recipe calculator
https://www.beertools.com/tools/calculator.php
I already pay for BrewersFriend and didn't want to pay for a second one.
I can't find the gravity numbers in any of the 3 software tools.
In Brewers' Friend I have the following, (it doesn't show how much each component contributes in gravity points)
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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dnierer wrote: | I can't find the gravity numbers in any of the 3 software tools.
In Brewers' Friend I have the following, (it doesn't show how much each component contributes in gravity points) |
It does - see the OG value. You'll see that some are higher than mine, some are lower.
Still doesn't match what the recipe author mentions however. We're both quite a bit higher (you more than me).
I think the only way you'll know is to talk to the author directly to understand. I don't understand how they get 1.069 if mash efficiency is 90%.
Good luck!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the sanity check I'm finding more recipes that are published in magazines just don't work out to the numbers they have published. I'm going to keep digging. Will definitely try to contact the author.
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