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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:38 am Post subject: Element plug stuck in Flanged outlet |
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Just finished a brew day. I was going through all the cleaning. The boil kettle I usually have to move to clean it, but Element plug stuck in Flanged outlet. And I mean stuck. I'm pretty sure I might break it if I use anymore force. I had to remove the whole flanged outlet so, I could clean the kettle. I still can't separate them. Should I just give it a shot with extra force? They aren't that expensive to replace. Is there anything safe I can spray in there to perhaps loosen it up? I'm not even sure what caused it to get stuck. I had to run it pretty hard near the end to get the down to 12 gallons due to humidity here today. High load and heat perhaps fused it?
Thought I'd get some opinions before I did any real damage to myself or the flange.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:05 am Post subject: |
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The locking element plug should not fuse itself to the control panel locking receptacle.
My guess is that it wasn't properly locked and/or not properly inserted which is turn caused current to flow through a smaller than normal area which caused heat which may have charred/caused things to fuse together slightly. I would use force and then inspect. How does the control panel element receptacle look inside the control panel? Any signs of heat damage?
Can you tell us more about your setup and what parts you used? I don't see any orders from us for these sorts of parts so not sure what products you're using exactly.
Kal
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:31 am Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | My guess is that it wasn't properly locked and/or not properly inserted which is turn caused current to flow through a smaller than normal area which caused heat which may have charred/caused things to fuse together slightly. I would use force and then inspect. How does the control panel element receptacle look inside the control panel? Any signs of heat damage? | There is nothing obvious. No charring to wires or the actual flange. No discharge or burnt plastic odor. The first thing I did once I realize there was an issue was give it a sniff.
kal wrote: | Can you tell us more about your setup and what parts you used? I don't see any orders from us for these sorts of parts so not sure what products you're using exactly.
Kal | L6-30 flanged outlet and L6-30P plug are the two pieces. Amazon sourced. NEMA is the brand, I believe.
If you suggest forcing them apart, I'll do that. Sounds like you want to make sure this isn't a larger issue.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:57 am Post subject: |
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You may simply have parts that are tight. I'd use force to open.
Kal
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I forced them apart. I had to pry them apart with a screw driver and a lot of force. There was some charring (very minor) and maybe some melting. Hard to tell how much melting due to damage from the separation. I guess I’ll order the replacements. Anything else I should be looking for to prevent further issues?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I’d be curious to understand why the problem happened in the first place to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Without seeing them or knowing how things were assembled in the first place it’s hard to make specific recommendations about what (if anything) was done incorrectly.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Here is some photos of the plug and flanged outlet. My hope is that it was just too humid. I brewed in the garage on a rainy day in Alabama. I don't use a hood, so that doesn't help. If you want images of the panel I can do that also.
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Kazumichan
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 177 Location: Cincinnati Ohio area
Working on: Belgium golden, Dubbel, and imperial red
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like that one prong got hot. I would bet that the connection on one side or the other was/is loose, most likely on the plug side.
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Kazumichan wrote: | It looks like that one prong got hot. I would bet that the connection on one side or the other was/is loose, most likely on the plug side. | If that's all it takes to cause this issues, yes that is possible. The other kettles either don't have a plug or don't need to be moved to clean. I am guilty of treating that plug roughly and have needed to bend it back straight on several occasions.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Humidity wouldn't be a concern.
To me it also looks like one of the spades got hot, and my bet would be on the wire side (where you connect the wire to the spade and screw it tight on the back) as that's the spot where some work/interaction was required by the user. You may have not tightened the screw enough, or had some insulation pressed between the contact/screw reducing the area where current flows through, or you may have cut off some strands by accident. All reduce the gauge which means more current flows through a small area which in turn generates heat. 99% of the time it's user error like this I'm afraid.
As long as the plug was inserted and turned (locked) it's almost impossible that it be a failure on the receptacle <-> plug connection as they are manufactured to be somewhat foolproof to ensure good spade to plug connectivity.
It may be too late, but it would be interesting to see how the wires on the back sides of the plug and receptacle were done.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'll point out too that both the plug and the receptacle have 3 connection points: 2 HOT and 1 GROUND. The two HOT spades carry equal amounts of current as current flows between the two. So they both see exactly the same amount of flow, but only one melted which means that the connection on one side was ok while the other (melted) side was poor. As mentioned previously, 99% of the time this from a wire being improperly attached to the plug or receptacle.
It can be part failure too but that's extremely rare.
It can also happen if connection points get dirty but yours look clean.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the HLT, it hasn't been touch or been a problem.
Here is the wires from BK side. Wire strands are clean for the most part. I don't recall if they were all clamped in really well or not.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Wires in the panel are not heat damaged so my guess is that the poor connection was on the plug side.
I’m assuming both the panel and the heating elements were ones you built yourself?
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | So wires in the panel are not heat damaged so my guess is that the poor connection was on the plug side.
I’m assuming both the panel and the heating elements were ones you built yourself?
Kal | That's good. I'm replacing them both now anyways. The panel was prebuilt. The elements were from a kit.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I’m confused - you mentioned above that the plug and receptacle were Amazon sourced.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | I’m confused - you mentioned above that the plug and receptacle were Amazon sourced.
Kal | Sorry, bad use of words on my part. That was the only place I could find the exact parts used. It was so anyone could look up the parts easier.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. I use your recommendations. Somethings are worth the extra money.
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Fal
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 70
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Link Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Just an update. I had several kegs in the waiting, so I haven't needed to brew for a bit. Now that it's time again, I finally ordered the parts Kal recommended. Repair and test went well, but it appears it was the wiring on the plug itself. Well, that's how it looks to me. That area got way hotter than the flange or prongs. Here is some pictures of after I opened up to old plug to remove it.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely looks to be the heating element cord side. You mentioned the heating elements were from a kit so likely you may have not tightened the screw enough, or had some insulation pressed between the contact/screw reducing the area where current flows through, or you may have cut off some strands by accident.
Speaking of cutting off strands, looking at this pic of inside the panel again that you posted earlier:
It would appear that some of the strands were accidentally cut on the black wire. I'd be careful with this. This was a pre-assembled panel bought elsewhere?
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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