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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:28 am    Post subject: Schematics Reply with quote


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Hi everyone. I'm new here. I did a search for schematics in regards to the control panel but did not find one. I am currently reading through the Control Panel part 1 and part 2, but have not seen any there yet. It would be helpful to have them as I read these articles. Are there any available?
Thanks,
JSM
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mtweeman




Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 29



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schematics are not available if you're looking for "classic" wiring diagrams. It's written at the beginning of the 2nd part of descirption for the control panel that no electrical schematics are provided, only easy to follow partial ones. See:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2
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mjo2125




Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spend $19 .95 and buy the guide on this website- it's worth the investment. not being an electrical engineer, it helped me a lot.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtweeman is correct. Wiring diagrams are provided step by step as you work through the build instead of a single schematic as most people find that easier.

Addendums are then provided if you wish to build one of the spin-off designs including:

- Adapting for 220-240V only countries (such as Europe, Australia, etc)
- Adapting for 30+ gallon setups
- Adapting for back to back setups

Good luck with your build!

Kal

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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,
I appreciate the information. The reason behind me asking is my control panel will not be made for a brewery. Instead for my hydrographics tank. It has the same elements (almost) but not as many of them. I will only need to run two heating elements, a pump and a timer. Looking at schematics helps me see what each of the brewery components are for that way because I am used to reading things like that. Any thoughts you guys might throw my way would be greatly appreciated.
JSM
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jigsawman wrote:
It has the same elements (almost) but not as many of them. I will only need to run two heating elements, a pump and a timer.

Our Standard 30A Electric Brewery Control Panel design runs 2 heating elements 2 pumps, and a timer. So very similar Just don't hook up a switch/outlet for a second pump. It's here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1

Cheers!

Kal

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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. That clarification gets me a little further. I looked at the control panel and of course the labels are all brewery related. You have four alarms, an element select, a red alarm light(?), three temp controllers and volts and amps LEDs. So for my set up I am not sure why I would need all of that extra stuff as well. It seems to me (uneducated guess here), that I would only need one temperature controller per heating element, an master on/off, an on/off for each heating element and one for the pump, and a timer, right? The rest of that stuff seems like money I'd spend and never use. Not that your complete control panel isn't a work of art in my opinion, but it just seems like buying a tow truck with no intent to ever use the tow truck hook. LOL.
JSM

P.S. I'd be more than willing to purchase a DIY kit with the stuff I need as opposed to all the extra stuff I'd never use.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jigsawman wrote:
I looked at the control panel and of course the labels are all brewery related. You have four alarms, an element select, a red alarm light(?), three temp controllers and volts and amps LEDs. So for my set up I am not sure why I would need all of that extra stuff as well. It seems to me (uneducated guess here), that I would only need one temperature controller per heating element, an master on/off, an on/off for each heating element and one for the pump, and a timer, right?

While I can't confirm 100% what you need as I don't know what sort of functionality you require for a hydrographics tank setup,
here are some ideas:

- If you don't need any alarming at all, you can get rid of the alarm switches, buzzer, and red light. Though I would imagine you may want something for the timer. If you have any temperature based alarms you require, go with alarms on the PIDs (temp controllers).

- Our Standard 30A setup fires one of the two elements at a time. Either in the BOIL or the HLT. That's what the element select is for. If you need to fire both at the same time, you need our 50A control panel for back to back batches.

- You may not need the MLT temp controller. If not it can be omitted.

- If you don't want the amp/volt meters they can omitted. No need for the 2 power supplies or 2 doorbell transformers then either.

- You already mentioned only needing one pump.

Quote:
P.S. I'd be more than willing to purchase a DIY kit with the stuff I need as opposed to all the extra stuff I'd never use.

We can sell you a custom kit if you'd like.

Cheers,

Kal

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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome information. Well I am interested in a custom kit. Bear in mind I am new to working with control panels but I am very capable at following instructions and learning as I go. If you'd like to ask me more specific questions as to what I am assembling so that you can dial in a custom DIY kit, please ask.
JSM
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll need to understand what sort of functionality is required for an hydrographics tank setup. It's not something we understand so we can't design a "hydrographics tank" control panel for you I'm afraid. We need a list of the features and specifications you need. Similar to what we have on our order page here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

Kal

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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. This is how it works. One or two heating elements are used to bring the water temperature up to a specific temperature. Normally this would be done with the water flowing. So if we turn the pump on the heating element or elements would come on at the same time (if needed). That does not mean that they would come on every time the pump runs though as a switch to manually disengage them would work for that scenario. The timer would be independent of anything as we just use the timer for tracking time outside of the normal operations of the tank. For example when we work with the film, we use the timer for that purpose. The timer does not control anything with the tank at all. It would still need to be in the control panel for purposes of us tracking time when we need to and for purposes of supplying the timer its power.

So basically, I would run the tank first thing to circulate the water and bring it up to temperature at which point the heating elements should shut of as well as the pump. Then it should turn back on as the temperature drops about 5-6 degrees. When I plan to use the tank, I would not want it automatically starting the pump and heat process so I'd have to be able to put it into a mode where I manually turn the pump on as I see fit and then be able to turn it off again.

That's it. I am pretty sure it is far less complicated that brewery mechanics. You guys have very specialized settings for a lot of things going on at any time. I hope this make sense to you.
JSM
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jigsawman wrote:
No problem. This is how it works. One or two heating elements are used to bring the water temperature up to a specific temperature.

Is it one or two? What wattage do you require? To help with this, how much water is there? What's the starting temperature? What's the target temperature? How fast do you need it to heat?

Quote:
Normally this would be done with the water flowing. So if we turn the pump on the heating element or elements would come on at the same time (if needed).

I would not recommend having the heating element(s) come on automatically when the pump is turn on. Instead, go with how our panels work which is to make sure flow is good before turning on the elements.

Quote:
That does not mean that they would come on every time the pump runs though as a switch to manually disengage them would work for that scenario.

The ELEMENT select or ELEMENT ON/OFF (Depending on which panel design works for you) would make sense.

Quote:
The timer would be independent of anything as we just use the timer for tracking time outside of the normal operations of the tank.

Does it need to count up? Count down? What sort of timeframe?

Quote:
For example when we work with the film, we use the timer for that purpose. The timer does not control anything with the tank at all.

Perfect. Same our standard panels.

Quote:
It would still need to be in the control panel for purposes of us tracking time when we need to and for purposes of supplying the timer its power.

The ones we use/recommend also do not lose the count if the power was to fluctuate by accident (or the operator turns it off momentarily, either by accident or on purpose).

Quote:
So basically, I would run the tank first thing to circulate the water and bring it up to temperature at which point the heating elements should shut of as well as the pump.

The heating element can cycle on/off at temp to maintain temp. You could then have an alarm sound to let you know you've reached temp and take control, turn things off, etc. It's not obvious to have the heating element turn off and STAY off once at temp. Not to mention the water would start to cool off.

Having the pump shut off at temp can also be automated, but I would recommend against it as generally speaking as you need flow to measure accurate temperature. Which brings me to the next question:

Where would you put the temperature probe? It's connected to the PID to measure temp which then tells the heating element to fire (if needed).

Quote:
Then it should turn back on as the temperature drops about 5-6 degrees.

Does it have to drop 5-6 degrees? In other words, do you need this oscillation in temperature between the set value and 5-6 degrees lower?

Quote:
When I plan to use the tank, I would not want it automatically starting the pump and heat process so I'd have to be able to put it into a mode where I manually turn the pump on as I see fit and then be able to turn it off again.

Makes sense.

Is there only one 'tank'? Meaning you only need 1 PID?

Last but not least: We can't design you a special schematic or wiring instructions for this but may be able to help you pick the parts. (We just don't have the cycles to do custom design work for everyone that asks I'm afraid). Yours should be very similar to our designs, just scaled down, so you'd use a scaled down wiring and parts.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, let me consider these questions. It will take me a little bit today (am busy as heck here at work). I'll PM you that I have replied once I have. Again, thanks alot for the assistance you're giving me. Your customer service reminds me of my customer service. Thanks!
JSM
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, instead of PM, please email me at kal@TheElectricBrewery.com. That way I can track it much better.

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
Jigsawman




Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks!
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