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3 Prog Outlet

 
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Breck09




Joined: 29 Mar 2018
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:08 am    Post subject: 3 Prog Outlet Reply with quote


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Just recently bought a house that has two 220v 3 prong outlets in the garage. From what I can understand I would actually need a 4 prong outlet for my electric brew setup. Is this something that is easy to change out? If I had to get an electrician any idea of a ballpark figure as to what it would cost? I know everyplace is different but are we taking a couple hundred or over a grand? Thanks.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I'm assuming you're located in North America in my response below - let me know if that's not correct...

Unless you plan on a custom 240V only build and can source 240V pumps, you are correct that you'd need a 4-prong outlet. Only a 4-prong outlet can supply both 240V and 120V: 240V to the high power heating elements, and 120V to the pumps.

As to how much to get someone to change this, it really depends on what you have now, the distances involved, what sort of work is required based on the location of the outlets vs. the electrical panel, and so forth. Best to get an electrician in to quote you. It should be free.

Good luck!

Kal

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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your fuse box is in the garage its easy to add a ground rod and wire it to the fuse box, thats your fourth wire its called ground to earth, it should be easy for any electrification but don't be taken, I did it my self in an hour
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Breck09




Joined: 29 Mar 2018
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fuse box is in the basement so I don’t think that is an option. Would it be easier since the box is in the basement to just run a new 220 in the basement right by the box? Brewing in the basement wouldn’t be bad.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
if your fuse box is in the garage its easy to add a ground rod and wire it to the fuse box, thats your fourth wire its called ground to earth, it should be easy for any electrification but don't be taken, I did it my self in an hour

You're assuming that the ground is what's missing but we don't know. They may be using 10/2 with ground like this to supply 240V and ground:



If that's the case you'd need to add an extra wire to make it equivalent to 10/3 with ground so that you have 3 covered wires with ground like this:



I think it best to talk to an electrician. Get a few quotes.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breck09 wrote:
The fuse box is in the basement so I don’t think that is an option. Would it be easier since the box is in the basement to just run a new 220 in the basement right by the box? Brewing in the basement wouldn’t be bad.

Brewing in the basement is usually preferred! Wink (At least I prefer it). Check out my ventilation article for about the only difference that probably matters: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ventilation

FYI, the voltage you'll be working with is 240V, not 220V. Though people tend to use the two numbers interchangeably even though in North America it's 240V.

Kal

_________________
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes sorry I didn't elaborate you would need to rewire to the outlet box, another question then is the fuse box above ground level and the meter is on the other side?
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to keep in mind the gauge of the wire. You mentioned you have 240V available, but we don't know if it's 30A, 40A, 50A, 60A or something else. What size is the wire and breaker?

What size wire (and corresponding breaker) you need depends on the control panel you intend on using. 30A and 50A are common, with 30A for brewing up to about 20 gallons, and 50A for above that or for other reasons: See the "Which Control Panel is right for me?" text here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

A 30A line requires 10 gauge wire.
A 50A line requires 6 gauge wire.

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
yes sorry I didn't elaborate you would need to rewire to the outlet box

My point wasn't that you'd need to rewire the outlet box, but that you can't do as you suggest and simply add a ground rod as you don't know if the ground wire is the one that's missing. He may have 2 conductor with ground already because the 3-prong outlet is wired to provide 240V and ground. In fact, it would be very rare that he has 240V and 120V but no ground on his 3-prong outlet (ie: missing ground).

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotcha, in the us most pre 1970 houses are wired with only 3 and there isn't a ground to earth so the ground and common are wired together in the box and the ground to the box is hooked to a water pipe in my area, my house was like that so I had to add a 4 foot ground rod, wire it to the fuse box then separate the ground and use the proper wire to my brewery outlet, also with that old set up my ground fault kept tripping, and the old way just is not a good system I was amusing his was the same my bad
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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Breck09




Joined: 29 Mar 2018
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the replies and information. I think the route I am going to take is trying to build it in the basement fairly close to the box. I looked at the breakers i n the box and there appeared to be 3 240/120 breakers which sounds like is what I would need in order to be able to run the elements and the pumps all together. There are windows down there that I would be able to open for ventilation and look into a fan for help with that. Only other thing I would like to have down there would be a utility sink for cleanup help. So I guess my next steps would be to have an electrician come over and give me an estimate on how much that would cost. Probably should wait for our power to be restored though since we had a tornado come through our neighborhood last night and cause quite a bit of damage.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breck09 wrote:
I looked at the breakers i n the box and there appeared to be 3 240/120 breakers which sounds like is what I would need in order to be able to run the elements and the pumps all together.

What amperages?

What you are building exactly?

What is your batch size?

I don't know what you want to run, but if you want to run our standard 30A control panel you'll need a 30A / 240V circuit. If you want to run one of our 50A control panels you'll need a 50A / 240V circuit.

More details on supply power: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=3

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
Breck09




Joined: 29 Mar 2018
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll have to double check but I think they were labeled 30amp and 50amp (can’t rememeber the other one maybe 40amp.) I plan on doing 10 gallon batches max. Ass for what I’m building, basically a 3 vessel system with 2 pumps.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, for 10 gallon batches on 3 vessel / 2 pumps, our 30A control panel build would work great. That's what it's for and what I use myself (same batch size): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
Breck09




Joined: 29 Mar 2018
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s the one I’ve been looking at. So that begs the question, not a lot of electrical wiring experience, how difficult are the DIY kits?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breck09 wrote:
That’s the one I’ve been looking at. So that begs the question, not a lot of electrical wiring experience, how difficult are the DIY kits?

Most people find them easy, especially if you order the pre-punched enclosure option as that saves a ton of work. The best thing you can do is read the instructions first and decide for yourself however. The instructions are split into 3 parts and cover about 120 pages and are online / are free to read. Start here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1

Also read our testimonials for some opinions. See here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/testimonials

If you care how the end result looks on the outside definitely consider at least a kit with a pre-punched enclosure. If you care how it looks on the inside, consider a pre-built control panel. The quality of the wiring our manufacturer does is second to none. Take a look at some of the pictures of pre-built panels at the bottom of our order page here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
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