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hennesse
Joined: 04 Feb 2011 Posts: 38 Location: United States: Virginia
Drinking: On Tap: Quickie ESB
Working on: Primary: Body, Body, Body IPA, 2ary: Paducah Pale Ale
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Link Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: How BIG can a starter be? |
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I routinely make a yeast starter, even if the yeast is pretty fresh (White Labs).
I was wondering: for a 10 gallon batch, instead of two packages of yeast, could I make a HUGE starter with just one package? Just how far can you take this?
BTW, I built my Electric Brewery five years ago, and it's been working flawlessly ever since!
Dave
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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hennesse
Joined: 04 Feb 2011 Posts: 38 Location: United States: Virginia
Drinking: On Tap: Quickie ESB
Working on: Primary: Body, Body, Body IPA, 2ary: Paducah Pale Ale
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: Calculator Differences of Opinion |
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I tried a number of "Yeast Calculators", and found a BIG difference in their estimates of Viability v. Age
All of the calculators agree that I need about 581 Billion cells for this particular recipe. But after that, they all diverge A LOT. The very first disagreement is how many yeast cells do I have now...
( It's been a long, cold winter here in Virginia, and it's been too darned cold to brew out in the garage. So this batch of yeast is a little older than usual. )
My WLP001 was born-on 12/10/2017. Today is 4/2/2018. Here's what the various calculator say:
BeerSmith 2.1.02 says my yeast is 40% viable
Brewer's Friend says it is 21%
YeastCalculator says it is 39%
BrewUnited says 42%
Mr. Malty says 18%
So these calculators differ by a factor of TWO. Before we look at any subsequent methods and calculations, we really need to establish how many cells I am starting with.
Any thoughts?
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/
http://yeastcalculator.com/
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I understand your frustrations. I agree and tend to think that most of the calculators error to the low side. I use Brewer's friend a lot and feel I have had great results but as you stated there is room for error without knowing the exact amount you're starting with. I figure at a 10 gallon batch size slightly over pitching is better than under pitching.
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013 Posts: 737 Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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unless you have a microscope, you'll never be able to predict an accurate number, the best thing to do is a 2 step or more starter and thats because the second step seams to react quicker meaning you woke up the yeast and they reproduced and are ready for more and even if half are dead you'll still have healthier live yeast to work with
_________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Calculator Differences of Opinion |
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hennesse wrote: | All of the calculators agree that I need about 581 Billion cells for this particular recipe. But after that, they all diverge A LOT.
BeerSmith 2.1.02 says my yeast is 40% viable
Brewer's Friend says it is 21%
YeastCalculator says it is 39%
BrewUnited says 42%
Mr. Malty says 18% |
It may be a factor of 2 but remember that that’s only about 20B cells and you’re trying to make nearly 580B. So if you make
between 560-600 that’s not much of a difference. The bigger factor is (imho) how accurate the calc is at estimating how much yeast you’re growing as you need to make over 500B cells.
Like others say, always best to underestimate and pitch big.
Kal
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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