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madcam brewing build

 
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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: madcam brewing build Reply with quote


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New to the forums. In the early stages of planning out a new walkout basement brewery build. I have been brewing on propane for about a year now. I do BIAB. I have a 10 gallon setup using a 20 gallon SS Brewtech Brewmaster kettle. I have a great cold side setup with an SSBT 14 gallon Unitank and glycol chiller. I usually do 5 gallon batches but can also do 10. I am in the Northeast and so did not really brew much this winter due to the cold temps. And honestly its not really that fun fighting off the yellow jackets in the heat as wort seems to be a magnet for them. Moving equipment around is a pain too so having a dedicated indoor space would be great.

First thing I am trying to figure out is which space to use. I have a large finished basement. I have a theater, game room and office. Initial though was it would go in the game room. That is where I store everything now, have my keezer and kind of have the space for it, I could make it work. But I am also thinking of doing it in the office room. That is right off the game room is a smaller 12x13 space and has a nook that is about 9 ft long that would be perfect for a 6 ft table and sink. Plus it is exposed on the backside of that wall to the utility room and only about 4-5 ft from the electric panel and about the same from a waste line I installed in the floor when we built the house years ago. Only downside is I do use the office to work out of a couple days a week. I can most likely make it all work and use it as a dual purpose space. I will post some pics later of both spaces.

Another big decision to make is whether to stick with BIAB or move to 3 vessel. I like the simplicity of BIAB. I have had some consistency issues with my batches and I am wondering if a 3 vessel eherms setup would allow for better consistency. Big price difference in equipment, control panel etc. but I hope to do this right once and built something to last years so would rather take the time now to work out the right decision than go down the wrong path. Though I could probably start BIAB and use that kettle during a move to herms, so would only really be out cost of basket. And If I got a big enough control box could probably also not lose much if anything there.

This is probably going to be a long build. Trying to save up for each purchase, so will build as extra money is available. Luckily the spaces are in good shape and I really only need to build out the hot side as my cold side and server setup is all set. I am going to use a steam tube instead of traditional ventilation so that will also remove some complexity.

To get things rolling I made my first purchase, one that will benefit me now even doing my gas brewing. I purchased a utility sink for the basement. Currently I have to lug everything up and down stairs to the kitchen and it makes for a long brew day lol. Having a sink in the basement will really make things a lot easier. I ordered the sink and faucet plus a 6 ft stainless steel table. I will play around with configuration between the two room with these as this should help me decide where I want to put the brewery. Sink should be here next week. Need to find a plumber, though I am an avid do it yourselfer I don't like dealing with plumbing.

Cant wait to get started. Learning a lot on this site already.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your build!

Kal

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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks can't wait to get started.
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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question on flooring. I have laminate floors in the basement. When brewing there are always spills. What are people doing for mats for their brewery? Any good recommendation on some rubber mats I can lay down in a few key spots?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend something like these industrial anti-fatigue mats:

http://amzn.to/2HDAWZP

Holes so that things dry out properly.

Kal

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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks!
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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am trying to understand the 3V eHerms setup. I currently do BIAB so the 3V I am slightly lost on. If I understand it currently. I would be filling up the HLT, making sure the coils were covered and circulating that water through a pump and back into the same HLT tank. I thought I saw something about accounting for water level dropping, but doesn't the water just recirculate?

Then The MLT is filled up separately? And the water from that tank circulates through a pump into the coils that are in the HLT and then back into the MLT? If the is correct how do you determine how much water to use the in the MLT? Also when you are done with the mash, does it just get pumped into the BK?

If all this is true, the HLT and MLT need to be filled with water manually, but the BK will receive water (wort) from the MLT and thus makes sense to set it up furthest from the sink?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marjen wrote:
So I am trying to understand the 3V eHerms setup.

WHat you wrote is all generally correct. The best thing you can do to understand how our 3-vessel HERMS setup works is to follow through a brew day using my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP GUIDE:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

I'll answer all the questions you asked here, with detailed instructions and pictograms of exactly how it works and why I do it this way. Feel free to modify to suit your needs of course.

Cheers!

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figured I'd also answer separately:

marjen wrote:
I would be filling up the HLT, making sure the coils were covered and circulating that water through a pump and back into the same HLT tank. I thought I saw something about accounting for water level dropping, but doesn't the water just recirculate?

I brew 10 gallon batches and fill my HLT to twice that amount to make sure I have enough heated water for the brew day, so I fill the HLT to the 20 gallon mark, heat, then transfer strike water to the MLT.

Quote:
Then The MLT is filled up separately?

I don't, but if your HLT isn't big enough, you'll have to do that. You may have to do that too if you brew something so high in gravity that you need more sparge + strike water than what your HLT can hold. I have to do that with my ~10% ABV Russian Imperial Stout and my 12% ABV Barley Wine. I could have gone with an even larger HLT to avoid this but it's minor annoyance for a beer or two I brew once every few years only.

Quote:
And the water from that [MLT] tank circulates through a pump into the coils that are in the HLT and then back into the MLT?

Correct.

Quote:
If the is correct how do you determine how much water to use the in the MLT? Also when you are done with the mash, does it just get pumped into the BK?

Your brewing software will tell you how much strike water is required based on the amount of grain you're using and the water:grist ratio you want for the beer you're making (see my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP for complete details).

Quote:
If all this is true, the HLT and MLT need to be filled with water manually, but the BK will receive water (wort) from the MLT and thus makes sense to set it up furthest from the sink?

They don't have to be filled manually unless your HLT is too small to heat everything at once. No harm in heating separately however: Just fill the HLT with sparge water, MLT with strike water, and start recirculating and both will heat up. The only downside to separate heating (IMHO) is adding chems to the water to remove chlorine/chloramine. I like to always start with 20 gallons in the HLT so I know exactly how much to use and don't have to calculate it separate for each batch.
For more info on removing chlorine/chloramine and why it's done, see my WATER ADJUSTMENT article: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment?page=7

I like having my BK closest to the sink for easy cleaning. I tilt it in and clean, no wires disconnected. My HLT is farthest since it never needs cleaning since it only ever has water in it. I use my hoses to fill it at the start of brew day from my sink: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hoses?page=5

More info in my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP article too.

Cheers!

Kal

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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal I appreciate the detailed answer. Just to confirm, the water in the HLT never goes into the MLT correct? It just keeps circulating through the pump back to the HLT? But the MLT is heated as the water (wort) is circulated through the coils and back into the MLT?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marjen wrote:
Kal I appreciate the detailed answer. Just to confirm, the water in the HLT never goes into the MLT correct?

If you brew following my design, heated strike water is indeed transferred from the HLT to the MLT as all the water is heated in the HLT first. This is how I brew. This is what's described in the BREW DAY STEP BY STEP instructions:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

Quote:
It just keeps circulating through the pump back to the HLT? But the MLT is heated as the water (wort) is circulated through the coils and back into the MLT?

I think you may be confusing yourself trying to guess at how things work. I really suggest you read through my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP instructions as it'll answer all your questions with diagrams, videos, and text:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

I'm also trying to avoid having to repeat the entire BREW DAY instructions here. Wink
Give the step by step a read through and then let me know if you have any questions.

Kal

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Creepy




Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 127
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll throw in just a few thoughts that might help clarify.

First off, definitely read Kal’s brew day step by step. It will clear everything up.

But the big thing for you is understanding how different this brew day is from BIAB. The big step you are leaving out in your line of questioning is the SPARGE. Water in the HLT is heated initially and then a portion of it used to fill the MLT (strike water). The rest is simply circulated in the HLT during the mash. Then water is run out of the HLT into the MLT during the sparge. The HLT will be effectively empty by the end of brew day.

The next mindset shift that could help is to not think of the sink as a water delivering medium and more as a cleaning vessel. The dirtier the kettle, the closer it needs to be to the sink. Hoses can always reach distant kettles.

Lastly, my two cents on your floor mat question a while back... I’d recommend against those commercial kitchen floor mats with the holes, personally. Spills are inevitable. Every brew day. Those holes allow it to dry, yes. But they don’t allow you to wipe up your mess very well. So that big sticky wort spill will just slowly ooze all around under that mat until it cakes your entire brewery floor and makes a dried sticky mess. I’d rather use a commercial gym mat kind of thing. Smooth surface is easier to wipe clean quickly. Again, just one perspective.

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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright sorry about that. I checked out the brew day steps and it answered a lot of my questions. Thanks for that!
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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creepy wrote:
I’ll throw in just a few thoughts that might help clarify.
Lastly, my two cents on your floor mat question a while back... I’d recommend against those commercial kitchen floor mats with the holes, personally. Spills are inevitable. Every brew day. Those holes allow it to dry, yes. But they don’t allow you to wipe up your mess very well. So that big sticky wort spill will just slowly ooze all around under that mat until it cakes your entire brewery floor and makes a dried sticky mess. I’d rather use a commercial gym mat kind of thing. Smooth surface is easier to wipe clean quickly. Again, just one perspective.


Yeah I think I like that idea. Currently I just throw some towels down. Eventually, like a couple years down the road once everything else is done and its all up and running I plan on replacing the laiminate floor with wood look tile so I can just mop it up.
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marjen




Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Location: CT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow so one thing I think I learned from reading that thread and watching some of the videos, it looks like a 3V brewery is a much longer day than a BIAB brew day. I am typically done in about 4-4.5 hours.

20 mins up to temp
60 min mash
20 min up to temp
60 min boil
40 min cool down with whirlpool
40-60 min prep cleaning time.

Looks like there is a lot of additional time in 3 V for:
getting MLT up to temp after getting HLT to temp
getting to mash out temp and mash out
sparging

How long is a typical day? 6-7 hours?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marjen wrote:
Wow so one thing I think I learned from reading that thread and watching some of the videos, it looks like a 3V brewery is a much longer day than a BIAB brew day.

Correct. Quality comes at a price. Wink

That said, you don't have to sit there and watch it the whole time. I certainly don't. Most of the time I'm doing other things around the house or even out doing groceries. Electric gives me a lot of flexibility. Sometimes I'll stop after sparging in the afternoon and leave the boil kettle set to ~150F to hold the temp for many hours and then start backup with the boil and cleanup after the kids are in bed later at night. Electric gives that flexibility.

I could mash for only 60 mins, but sometimes do more like 3 hours to get a beer that looks like this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BglbZY8nVde/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

Again, quality comes at a price. Wink

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marjen wrote:
Alright sorry about that. I checked out the brew day steps and it answered a lot of my questions. Thanks for that!

No worries! My biggest fear about answering separately is that I'll miss things, while the STEP BY STEP was written a lot more carefully and tweaked over years. Don't want you to miss anything! (So I always like to refer people to documentation I've spent a lot of time wording very carefully)

Kal

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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often split my brew days for lack of available time in one day. Mash and sparge into the boil kettle, lid on.. day one and then the next day pick up with the boil.

Silverspoons
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverspoons wrote:
I've often split my brew days for lack of available time in one day. Mash and sparge into the boil kettle, lid on.. day one and then the next day pick up with the boil.

Silverspoons


Do you keep it heated the whole time before you start the boil? Or just let it cool down then reheat the next day?

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