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inkedbrewer




Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: carboy size Reply with quote


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As i don't currently have the room for the nice 12 gal conical fermenters..i'm planning on using the carboys which i already have. i have a few of each size..6.5 gal, 6 gal and 5 gal. Maybe it was mentioned somewhere and I can't just seem to find it..but what size carboy do you recommend for primary fermentation? I'm assuming a 6 gal...as you probably will have about 5.5 gal in the primary (using the Blonde Ale as example) and end up with 5 gal in a keg.

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Tungsten




Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Posts: 318
Location: Buffalo, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use 6.5 gallon carboys, and I would not ever go less than that for a 5 gallon batch. I also start my batch at 5.5 gallons into the fermentor. Despite using a 6.5 gallon carboy, sometimes I have an extreme amount of blowoff even with a full gallon of headspace (depending upon yeast, recipe, etc) that requires two-a-day cleanouts of the blowoff tube. I cannot possibly imagine going with a 6.0 gallon fermentor.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even 6.5 gallons can be too small, especially with how some yeasts have a huge krausen (foam). I use 7.8 US gallon (6.5 Imperial gallon) buckets and sometimes they're not even big enough if I want to ferment without overflow and get 5 us gallons in the keg. Hops can suck up a ton of beer too if dry hopping.

FWIW I've never known anyone to use 6 us gallon carboys and be able to get a full 5 us gallon into kegs for all beer styles. Definitely light hopped lagers fermented cold (very little krausen) but definitely not something like a Weizen which needs a full 33% headspace because of the crazy yeast.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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inkedbrewer




Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe i should consider investing in some of the SsBrewTech Brew Buckets since they are stack-able, when i have the finances to...i guess in the mean time i'll use 7.8 gal buckets. Do you ever replace your buckets and if so how often?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure to read our section on fermenting/packaging:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step?page=11

I can help you choose what's right for you. There's no "best" fermenter.

inkedbrewer wrote:
Maybe i should consider investing in some of the SsBrewTech Brew Buckets since they are stack-able, when i have the finances to...

If interested in supporting our site when you purchase (at no cost to you), see here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Conical-Fermenter

Quote:
i guess in the mean time i'll use 7.8 gal buckets. Do you ever replace your buckets and if so how often?

I don't, at least not on purpose. I've replaced one or two over the last 25 years because of cracks, but that's it.

Kal

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inkedbrewer




Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If interested in supporting our site when you purchase (at no cost to you), see here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Conical-Fermenter
I work at my LHBS and can get these at cost..so if i do decide to purchase one I'll go that route..but I have purchased almost all the necessary build parts from your site Kal. Just need to purchase the 50A Control Panel and I'll have everything!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck!

Kal

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pg




Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 19
Location: San Antonio, TX


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love my brew buckets. Usually just stick silicone tubing right in the top and have never had problems. The best part is they clean up in literally 2 minutes.
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JSB




Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 125
Location: NE Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resurrecting from the dead.....

Has anyone used:

Speidel Plastic Storage - 60 l (15.9 gal)
FE730
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSB wrote:
Resurrecting from the dead.....

Has anyone used:

Speidel Plastic Storage - 60 l (15.9 gal)
FE730


You mean these ones here?: https://www.morebeer.com/products/speidel-plastic-storage-60-159-gal.html?a_aid=theelectricbrewery

They look like they'd be a nightmare to clean/keep sanitized.

Kal

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JSB




Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 125
Location: NE Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Kal... that be it.

Issue is.... the Wife caught me looking at Brew Buckets... and promptly said NOOOO! (I am thinking... maybe down the road)

So my choices are:
Glass Carboys (6.5 gallon or more per Kal)
Plastic buckets
FerMoster
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If those were my choices I'd use 7.9 gallon plastic buckets for the fermentation: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/7-9-gallon-plastic-food-grade-fermentation-bucket

And 5-6 gallon glass carboys as the brite tanks for when you need to use gelatin or want to dry hop off yeast: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Glass-Carboy

That's what I used for years and it works fine as long as you understand the limitations (mostly to not leave beer in plastic too long as it doesn't limit O2 100%).

More info on the pros and cons here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ferment-and-package

Good luck!

Kal

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All-

To start, thanks for allowing my to join the forum. Secondly, I am brand new to the hobby and only have two brew days under my belt and likely will have many silly amateur questions...

Within this particular thread I was curious if someone would be willing to enlighten me on the timing of primary vs secondary. By this I mean in what time frame dose one typically transfer to secondary? I've ready a number of contradictory information on the web and am still slightly puzzled. Finally, is there any advantage to actually using a secondary fermenter i.e. better clarity, fewer off tastes, ect?

-John
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John - welcome to the forum!

JMD887 wrote:
Within this particular thread I was curious if someone would be willing to enlighten me on the timing of primary vs secondary. By this I mean in what time frame dose one typically transfer to secondary?

Today most brewers do a single vessel fermentation. Best to ferment completely and then leave a few extra days in the primary before racking.

Quote:
I've ready a number of contradictory information on the web and am still slightly puzzled. Finally, is there any advantage to actually using a secondary fermenter i.e. better clarity, fewer off tastes, ect?

I don't use a "secondary" per se. Normally when someone says secondary that means secondary fermentation, and as per my comment above it's generally not recommended to do a secondary fermentation with today's clean yeasts. Way back when I started brewing (late 1980s) it was very common practice to rack (transfer) the beer from a primary fermenter to a secondary as soon as the krausen (foam) had a dropped a bit but the yeast was still fermenting vigorously. This was usually a few days into active fermentation. From what I remember (maybe incorrectly) was that this was done because back then yeast quality was sub-par and the yeast would throw off some nasty stuff that you didn't want your beer to sit on in fear of developing off flavours.

Time have changed and today it's best to leave the beer in the primary until it's 100% done, then maybe rack to another vessel (sometimes called a bright/brite tank) for clearing.

See here for complete details: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ferment-and-package

That said, every beer is different. Some of my beers go directly from primary to keg, others get the brite tank for a few days. See my recipes for recommendations/examples: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/recipes

Some examples of why I may go directly from fermenter to keg:

- For a very flocculent yeast (a yeast that settles out well/quickly) like WLP002/WY1968 I'll simply wait for the fermentation to be done, plus a few extra days, then go straight to keg. The beer's crystal clear.
- It's an extremely hoppy beer and I don't want to 'handle' it too much. I want to avoid any exposure to O2. (I always purge target vessels with CO2 before racking to avoid oxidation, but the less open transfers you do the better). This one doesn't actually happen much since most hop forward beers are dry hopped which means I probably use a secondary vessel (see below).

Some examples of why I may use a secondary vessel:

- I want to dry hop (add hops to the beer) for 2-5 days and then go to keg. Dry hopping with less yeast tastes different.
- I want to use finings (like gelatin) to help the beer clear up. I do this with light lagers / pilsners. They spend a couple of days in the brite tank (a 5-6 gallon carboy) with a teaspoon of unflavoured gelatin that was dissolved in distilled water. After 2 days the beer's pretty much perfectly clear. Then kegged. While all beer eventually clears, this is faster and there's less gunk the keg this way.

None however get removed from the primary fermenter until the beer's 100% done fermenting. Pulling beer off active yeast before it's done is not good as you leave behind way too much good yeast. It just makes the yeast have to start working again to reproduce to get up a cell density that works best. Unfortunately the conditions for doing so are poor near the end of fermentation: There's no O2 left (nor do we want to introduce any) and the simple sugars they crave are mostly gone. End result of pulling beer off yeast too soon is often a stalled fermentation which results in a beer that is too sweet / underattenuated.

Cheers!

Kal

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I want to use finings (like gelatin) to help the beer clear up. I do this with light lagers / pilsners. They spend a couple of days in the brite tank (a 5-6 gallon carboy) with a teaspoon of unflavoured gelatin that was dissolved in distilled water.


interesting- I'll have to try this trick. Another one of my questions where in r/t this. I've used both Irish Moss and cold of mother nature thus far to aid in clarification. I toyed around with the idea of building a filter- but rather build other components at this time. i.e upgrading from 1 gallon brew house to a 5 gallon.

Quote:
None however get removed from the primary fermenter until the beer's 100% done fermenting.


could you clarify by what is meant by 'until the beer's 100% done fermenting"- how dose one tell? Previously I've just waited 2-3 days (depending on my work schedule) after I've noticed the amount of bubbling in my air lock has significantly declined.. Roughly 2 weeks and a few days after pitching.


-John
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMD887 wrote:
could you clarify by what is meant by 'until the beer's 100% done fermenting"- how dose one tell? Previously I've just waited 2-3 days (depending on my work schedule) after I've noticed the amount of bubbling in my air lock has significantly declined.. Roughly 2 weeks and a few days after pitching.

Fermentation is considered done when the gravity doesn't change over a period of "X" days. ("X" being something that people probably can't agree on. I'd say anywhere about 3-5 days).

Give my "Ferment and Package" article a read as it covers this and everything about fermenting and packaging, step by step, and the reasons around everything:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ferment-and-package

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Cheers!

Kal

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:


http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ferment-and-package

Kal


Great read- highly informative, thanks for the suggestion.

This made me realize that I didn't have the needed equipment to be able to take gravity readings. looks like I'll have to stop by my home brew store to pick up a new toy Smile

On a side note- I can see you're a Blichmann guy when it comes to your kettles. But I've noticed Ss Brew Tech fermentation buckets in some of the photos in the above link. Do you feel as if Ss Brew Tech kettles would a worthy substitution to the Blichmann Boilermakers? From what I can see, they appear to spec out fairly similar, but I'm by no means mechanically minded.

I'm trying to put together a shopping list to start buying items over the next several months.

Cheers,

John
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMD887 wrote:
Do you feel as if Ss Brew Tech kettles would a worthy substitution to the Blichmann Boilermakers?

No.

Their mash tun is insulated. That's useless for our setup here that constantly heats. It's an intended replacement for those who use a picnic cooler and batch sparge. Not an advanced HERMS based setup that is constantly recirculated/heated that allows step mashes and is fly sparged.

Their false bottom uses a silicone seal to seat itself which means it's more work to clean, can rip over time, etc. That's because they don't have a stepped bottom for the the false bottom to rest on like the Blichmann one does.

None of their kettles have a sight glass. They go with cheaper etched markings on the inside which are impossible read if there's foam or during boiling because the wort's jumping around, and you have to constantly remove the lid to check. The mash tuns do have a manometer that kinda works as a sight glass but it's unprotected, completely exposed.

If I had to buy all over again, I'd do Blichmann again for the reasons I state here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview

They (IMHO) get everything perfectly right*, from the stepped louvered false bottom which is dead simple to clean and has the dip tube off to the side, the the sight glass that is cleaned with a simple pass of a brush (included) with no need to disassemble, to the thin bottom which keeps the kettle lighter and you're not paying for a thick clad bottom, etc...

Cheers!

Kal

*I don't like their new flow valve for our use. I'd replace that. The link above will lead you here which shows you how: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27425

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:


They (IMHO) get everything perfectly right*, from the stepped louvered false bottom which is dead simple to clean and has the dip tube off to the side, the the sight glass that is cleaned with a simple pass of a brush (included) with no need to disassemble, to the thin bottom which keeps the kettle lighter and you're not paying for a thick clad bottom, etc...


Fair enough- Blichmann it is. I take your 20+ years of experience and trust you on this one.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at your own needs too as not everyone brews the same way, but that said the Blichmann ones couple extremely well with the rest of the equipment I use and how I like to brew. Good luck!

Kal

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