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Condensation Hood
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Condensation Hood Reply with quote


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Having a problem with moisture collecting on the flat top of the condensation hood and dripping down onto the kettles. If I had to do things again I'd have purchased a condensation hood with baffles. Actually, I recommend getting a condensation hood with baffles even if one doesn't believe they are needed. Better to have and not need than need and not have.

Now I'm researching if I can retrofit baffles into my condensation hood. No fun.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got any pics of your current hood and how things are set up along with how the fan/duct run is set up? I haven't had issues with my setup in two locations now, and I don't have baffles.

I do mention wondering if they'd be needed in my ventilation article: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ventilation

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hood is from the Guide. 67" long, 12" high, 24" deep with a 2" gutter around the bottom. Exhaust hole is off center, more toward the left, in the top.

Yes, I considered the baffles as mentioned in the Guide. Should have realized we have MUCH more humidity here than in Canada and went with the baffle model. Probably got misguided when we visited Niagara Falls, Canada, twice, and it was very humid both times. Thought to myself, "humidity seems the same as home". No, no, no. Should have got the hood with the baffles.

Does anyone know if baffles or other are available for the size of the hood to prevent moisture dripping back down from the flat top? If so, from whom?

Thanks.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kraig wrote:
Yes, I considered the baffles as mentioned in the Guide. Should have realized we have MUCH more humidity here than in Canada and went with the baffle model. Probably got misguided when we visited Niagara Falls, Canada, twice, and it was very humid both times. Thought to myself, "humidity seems the same as home". No, no, no. Should have got the hood with the baffles.

I don't see how the amount of humidity in the air would affect it as the boiling wort would produce air with 100% humidity, much higher than the air. We've got people using similar setups in 50 countries with varying humidity levels without issues.

How are the fan/ducts set up? What fan? How long's the run, how many elbows, and so forth.

What are you using for make-up air?

What's your boil-off rate?

Can you post some pictures of everything? Pictures tell a thousand words. If you're getting condensation you're not getting good airflow for some reason and the pictures would probably explain why.

Baffles would certainly channel the moisture properly and give it somewhere to go of course, but that's likely a bandaid solution. Just trying to find you the simplest solution.

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 elbow (from the top of the hood), then a straight line to the Vortex VTX600 Powerfan straight to the outside.

Get plenty of condensation dripping from the Vortex!

Once boil begins I set the PID to M80. Perhaps, I should dial down to M70?
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size batches are you doing?

Silverspoons
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kraig,

I need you to answer all the questions if you can, as it'll help figure out what's going on. Still unanswered:

1. How long is the duct run? I'm assuming it's 6" diameter?
2. What are you using for make-up air?
3. What's your boil-off rate?

I'll add another one:

4. How fast are you running the VTX600 fan?

Again, post some pictures. Pictures tell a thousand words. If you're getting condensation you're not getting good airflow for some reason and the pictures would probably explain why. It's probably something you're not noticing. (Hence the reason why pictures always help!)

@Silverspoons: Batch size isn't important - what matters is boil-off rate.

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverspoons wrote:
What size batches are you doing?

Silverspoons


Beginning with 13.9 or 14.9 gallons depending if 60 or 90 minute boil to end up with 12 gallons.
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Hi Kraig,

I need you to answer all the questions if you can, as it'll help figure out what's going on. Still unanswered:

1. How long is the duct run? I'm assuming it's 6" diameter?
2. What are you using for make-up air?
3. What's your boil-off rate?

I'll add another one:

4. How fast are you running the VTX600 fan?

Again, post some pictures. Pictures tell a thousand words. If you're getting condensation you're not getting good airflow for some reason and the pictures would probably explain why. It's probably something you're not noticing. (Hence the reason why pictures always help!)

@Silverspoons: Batch size isn't important - what matters is boil-off rate.

Kal


I need to check the duct run length.

Make up air? Air from out side. There's a valve that I can control the air. It's wide open when the vortex is running.

Boil off rate? 1.9 gallons per hour.

How fast are you running the VTX600 fan? Top speed.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything sounds normal so far- thanks! Maybe some pics would help explain what's different

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photos


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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any photos that show:

- Relation of the vent hole to where the kettles are
- The make-up air valve/piping and where it is in relation to the kettles/hood

I suspect you're having air movement issues and without seeing it in person it's hard to tell why.

Kal

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JSB




Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 125
Location: NE Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I suspect you're having air movement issues and without seeing it in person it's hard to tell why.


Maybe an incense stick might aid in showing air movements.... though it has been a long time since I have lit one... I think they produce a trail of smoke.
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Do you have any photos that show:

- Relation of the vent hole to where the kettles are
- The make-up air valve/piping and where it is in relation to the kettles/hood

I suspect you're having air movement issues and without seeing it in person it's hard to tell why.

Kal


Tried to taking photos. Difficult showing kettles and the exhaust hole in the flat portion of the hood.

Exhaust hole is between the mash tun and the brew kettle. Probably a bit more toward the mash tun.

Fresh outside makeup air pipe is to the right of the kettle stand. Air pipe ends a few feet from the floor.

I know the vortex exhaust fan is pulling air as I can feel air passing thru the gap at the bottom of the brewery door. The brewery door is closed. Maybe I should block off the air from the bottom of the door with a towel?

Maybe the 80% manual boil is too vigorous? Maybe I only need 70%.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kraig wrote:
I know the vortex exhaust fan is pulling air as I can feel air passing thru the gap at the bottom of the brewery door. The brewery door is closed. Maybe I should block off the air from the bottom of the door with a towel?

You can, but all that will do is reduce the amount of air from the house that you're using as make-up air instead of drawing from the outside using your make-up air pipe. I have a door sweep on my brewery door specially for this reason as I'd rather pull air from outside than push air-conditioned air in the summer (or heated air in the winter) from the rest of the house as that's a waste of energy.

If for any reason your make-up air pipe/vent isn't able to supply enough for the fan then blocking under the door would reduce the airflow too. Make sure your make-up air system is the same diameter pipe as the exhaust. One test you can try to make sure you don't have issues supplying enough air to the room with your make-up air pipe is to try a boil with the brewery door open and/or a window open in the brewery.

Quote:
Maybe the 80% manual boil is too vigorous? Maybe I only need 70%.

Possibly, but that's a bandaid solution. You should be able to run at 100%.

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just think the hood needs a curved top or baffle to direct the condensed steam toward the gutters. Problem is the hood's flat top. The steam will collect somewhere. In this case it collects on the hood's flat top, condenses into liquid and drips down. Same happens when boiling a pot on the stove. Steam condenses above and drips down.

Received a reply from a hood manufacturer. Wrote about angling a piece of stainless from near the top toward the gutter. I understand the concept, but I'm unsure how to hold up the piece of stainless in the hood unless I drill holes, etc.



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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - That was the same concern I had originally and why I did a test before having someone build the hood for me. Installing baffles will most certainly fix the issue as it'll let the condensation drip down into the side gutters. I only mention that it's likely an airflow issue as you're the first person of thousands that I'm aware (or remember) having this issue. If the air flows fast enough it won't have time to condense as it'll get sucked into the fan.

How bad is the dripping? Another option would be to simply do nothing. A few drips of the same water that was in the kettle falling back into the kettle isn't going to do anything.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... even though my brewery is clean I don't like the idea of condensate dripping back into my kettles. There's enough dripping during the last brew, on August 5th, I stood on a step stool several times and wiped off, best I could, the condensate on the flat section of the hood.
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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just make a gutter so to speak and tilt it towards one area with a collection jar, so change the vent hood to lean slightly one way and back
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same idea. Simple solution. Unfortunately, the mounting posts are in the ceiling. I'd have to tear out drywall, making a mess, to get to them. Adjust the mountings. Fix the drywall, once again making a mess.
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