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GAParkins
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 29 Location: South Florida
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: Insulated vs. non-insulated MLT? |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2-pump, 3-kettle HERMS systems of equal size and connections, the setup with the uninsulated MLT would produce the exact same beer, but for the slightly higher electrical cost due to the heat leaking out the sides and top, right?
In other words, the added expense of an insulated MLT is offset by the lower cost of the electricity used on brew day.
Has anyone ever analyzed the kWH difference between insulated and non-insulated mash tuns?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Insulated vs. non-insulated MLT? |
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GAParkins wrote: | Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2-pump, 3-kettle HERMS systems of equal size and connections, the setup with the uninsulated MLT would produce the exact same beer, but for the slightly higher electrical cost due to the heat leaking out the sides and top, right? |
Correct. Probably only a few pennies per batch difference in most cases.
In the boil kettle you may be able to run the duty cycle slightly lower, and be able to get to temperature slightly faster.
In the MLT and HLT it will heat slightly faster and hold temperature slightly better requirement the HLT element to not fire as often.
Having a HLT to MLT temperature differential is a very common issue on some setups that use parts that are different from the ones I recommend in our build instructions. Insulating the MLT may help minimize that differential. Most people just increase the HLT temp to compensate.
Quote: | In other words, the added expense of an insulated MLT is offset by the lower cost of the electricity used on brew day. |
Correct.
Quote: | Has anyone ever analyzed the kWH difference between insulated and non-insulated mash tuns? |
You can try playing with these calculators:
http://www.brewheads.com/powerrequired.php
http://www.brewheads.com/rise.php
The main reason I don't insulate anything is not cost but because I feel the time and long term $$ savings is minimal, I haven't seen a nice elegant way to insulate the kettles I use, it would make it harder to clean/increase the effort.
Kal
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GAParkins
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 29 Location: South Florida
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the quick reply, Kal. I'm building everything around a 1/2bbl brewery, and I really like the look of the Ss Brewtech kit, but I think the biggest mash tun they make is 20-gallon capacity, with is (to me) cutting it pretty close. I'm happy to save a couple of hundred bucks and just order three of their 30-gallon plain boil kettles and locate/punch my own holes.
On the fun side, I just tripped and fell down a rabbit hole called Raspberry Pi, and I think I'm onto a way to add it to my current adaptation of your control panel. I think I can rig it so a single SPST switch will select between PID control and Raspberry Pi control of the elements and pumps. It'll wind up with a bunch of DPDT DIN rail mount PLC-style relays and some 3PDT relays for the PT100s.
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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GAParkins wrote: | Thanks for the quick reply, Kal. I'm building everything around a 1/2bbl brewery, and I really like the look of the Ss Brewtech kit, but I think the biggest mash tun they make is 20-gallon capacity, with is (to me) cutting it pretty close. I'm happy to save a couple of hundred bucks and just order three of their 30-gallon plain boil kettles and locate/punch my own holes.
On the fun side, I just tripped and fell down a rabbit hole called Raspberry Pi, and I think I'm onto a way to add it to my current adaptation of your control panel. I think I can rig it so a single SPST switch will select between PID control and Raspberry Pi control of the elements and pumps. It'll wind up with a bunch of DPDT DIN rail mount PLC-style relays and some 3PDT relays for the PT100s. |
GAParkins,
Take a look at BrewBuilt Kettles. They look the same as SsBrewtech but have welded fittings.
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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GAParkins
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 29 Location: South Florida
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I don't need the 3-ply bottom, as I'm using electric, and I'm going to want more ports than they offer. For example, the HLT will need HERMS coil ports, the MLT will need a sparging/wort return port up high, and the boil kettle will need a whirlpool fitting down low. Also, The HLT and BK need holes for the heater elements, and I might add a 2-tube manometer to the MLT. I know it's a lot of holes, but I have access to Greenlee punches for most sizes.
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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GAParkins wrote: | I don't need the 3-ply bottom, as I'm using electric, and I'm going to want more ports than they offer. For example, the HLT will need HERMS coil ports, the MLT will need a sparging/wort return port up high, and the boil kettle will need a whirlpool fitting down low. Also, The HLT and BK need holes for the heater elements, and I might add a 2-tube manometer to the MLT. I know it's a lot of holes, but I have access to Greenlee punches for most sizes. |
Correct, you would also need to punch most of these holes in the Ss Brewtech kettles to. I'm just suggesting the BrewBuilt kettles because I've seen them in person and they are exactly the same as Ss but with two welded on fittings.
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013 Posts: 737 Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I have mine insulated but not for price, its because I brew outside and sometimes in the winter and it helps with heating up faster, its a marginal difference in time maybe 5 to 10 minutes faster but the plus is nothing is hot so no more scorching hands accidentally
_________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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GAParkins
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 29 Location: South Florida
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Link Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I live in South Florida. The thought that it might get too cold outside to mash never occurred to me! Haha!
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pkrndbutt63
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 Posts: 1 Location: Mandeville, La
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Link Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of Ss Brewtech, has anyone added an element to their infussion mash tun? The all in one kit Ss Brewtech sells comes with 2 mash tuns, can that second mash tun have the heating element and herms coil added to it? can anyone find the max temp?
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