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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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HopSteady
Joined: 09 Jan 2016 Posts: 36
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | ...you can't use my numbers to help you. It will only confuse you..l |
You are of course correct on both counts .
But what I failed to mention is that 1) My starting water is pretty much the same as yours, pretty close to RO, and so after the addition of the salts we should have very similar water to work with (the only missing info which is relevant is bicarbonate which impacts the total and residual alkalinity, I assume yours will be very low like mine), and 2) I use the same kettle size and heating element, and so our boil off rates should be comparable if not the same.
Was mainly looking for a ballpark on how much acid to add to the HLT before strike in to hit a mash pH of 5.35. My sheet is predicting 13mL of phosphoric acid. Is this WAY off? Would be good to have an idea before brewing.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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HopSteady wrote: | Was mainly looking for a ballpark on how much acid to add to the HLT before strike in to hit a mash pH of 5.35. My sheet is predicting 13mL of phosphoric acid. Is this WAY off? Would be good to have an idea before brewing. |
Not sure as I don't use phosphoric (I use 88% lactic), I don't know what strength phosphoric you're using, and the spreadsheet I use (EZWater) doesn't seem to offer the ability to guess at the amount of phosphoric needed anyway.
pH estimators are notoriously inaccurate at estimating pH due to the complexity of the calculations and the number of variables involved - that's why I suggest they be ignored in my water adjustment article and instead recommend that a pH meter be used: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment
When I do add 88% lactic until I hit the right pH, I rarely add more than 2-3 ml in my mash (for a 12 gallon post boil batch size), but it depends on the beer. If the beer is anything other than straight pils or 2-row, It's rare that I have to add any.
Good luck!
Kal
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Tennessee
Joined: 04 Apr 2015 Posts: 116 Location: Tennessee
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Filtering the junk from this tutti frutti ale. Might have to do a quick carb in my shinny new black chrome ukeg...
_________________ Kal Clone (30amp),Mash Re-Circulation Manifold, Custom BK Hop Filter.
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hbohnet
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 33 Location: Canmore, AB
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Just finished the first keg of this and must say it turned out quite good. Was a little concerned as the ABV was low at 4%. The FG finished at 1.019, Kal's is 1.014 according to the recipe. I would like to brew this again and get closer to 5% ABV. Looking for some adviice on herhaps why the FG was off. The only thing I noticed was the yeast starter did not seem to have much yeast cake after it settled out, not sure if that means anything. Another note when I plug the recipe into Beersmith it calculates a FG of 1.018. Does this sound right? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Harry
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Harry,
What did you use to measure the FG?
A 5 point difference results in around 0.6% ABV change so I’m assuming your SG was also a bit low? What’s your mash efficiency? If it’s lower than that listed in the recipe, simply increase the grain amount to compensate for the SG difference. Your brewing software will do this for you.
Lastly, ignore brewing software FG estimates. I don’t know of any that takes into consideration the various complicated variables that affect FG like mash temp, mash thickness, grist composition, yeast strain, and so forth.
All that said, I’m not sure why your FG ended high. If you took detailed brew notes as you went from grain to glass, post the details here and we can see if anything obvious stands out. Otherwise we’re just going to be guessing. Cheers!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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hbohnet
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 33 Location: Canmore, AB
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply Kal, sorry should have given more details. Followed your recipe exalcly (12 gaL batch) scaled for my system
FG measured with a hydrometer and is calibrated.
Mash efficency I use 83%, this is adjusted after about 15 batches on my system, a clone of your design. Yes my SG was a little low 1.049, When I brewed the Hop Candy IPA it was also a couple of points low so will adjust the mash effeciency next time. Normally I am quite close using 83%, not sure if the high flaked oat/wheat/carapils has an effect on the calculation in the beersmith software?
Good to know the FG in the software is not accurate so will ignore that. I have never had an issue with too high of a FG, if anything it is sometimes a point or two low.
Went back through my notes and the brew went really well. No issue with mash temps, maintained 160 deg, sparge was 80 min, all in all a good brew day. Two things were noted. As mention the yeast starter seemed a little off. The colour of the starter wort was darker and after it settled seemed to have less yeast cake than normal. The other note was this was the first batch I uesd my new oxygen setup, refillable O2 bottle with flow regulator and 0.5 micron stone. I set the flow for 1 l/m and oxygenated the wort for 1 min for 12 gal batch. My old oxygen setup was disposable bottle with pressure regulator and would aretate wort for 2 min because was not really sure how much O2 was delivered.
Appreciate your help. If notheing else will bump up the grain amount and try again. As mentioned the beer still turned out really good, think it would even be better with a little more alochol.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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rivetcatcher
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 132 Location: Thailand
Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus
Working on: Zombie Dust
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Going to try this next but can’t get the exact ingredients. I will be using saf 04 yeast. I cannot get the honey malt so was wondering what you would recommend replacing it with as I have read that it is quite unique.
Cheers.
Rivet
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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rivetcatcher
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 132 Location: Thailand
Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus
Working on: Zombie Dust
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Will do. Thanks
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DIBS
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Posts: 24 Location: Slave Lake
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Link Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: Low OG |
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Hey there. I brewed this yesterday. Held great temperature throughout mash, and roughly 90 minute sparge, then the typical boil. My OG ended up 1.044. Any insight on to what I missed? I scaled up to our 50 gallon set-up, pretty sure all my grains were good. Might just have to put more in next time.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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DIBS
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Posts: 24 Location: Slave Lake
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Link Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Low OG |
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kal wrote: | DIBS wrote: | Hey there. I brewed this yesterday. Held great temperature throughout mash, and roughly 90 minute sparge, then the typical boil. My OG ended up 1.044. Any insight on to what I missed? |
Hi! That's really hard to guess. There could have been any number of things.
What was the total amount of grain used and what is your usual mash efficiency calculated from previous batches?
Kal |
Hey there. So for my batch it was 79lbs of grain with an efficiency of 90%. Thats usually my average.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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79lbs sounds right for a mash efficiency of 90% for a batch size of 50 gallons (I just plugged it into my software to check). So not sure why you're lower as there are literally dozens of variables from pH to grain type and power, etc. Sometimes it's from mis-measuring (being a scoop or two short). There's no one specific thing. Sorry! I'd go back to your brew day logs and look at what you did very carefully to see if anything sticks out.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DIBS
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Posts: 24 Location: Slave Lake
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Link Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | 79lbs sounds right for a mash efficiency of 90% for a batch size of 50 gallons (I just plugged it into my software to check). So not sure why you're lower as there are literally dozens of variables from pH to grain type and power, etc. Sometimes it's from mis-measuring (being a scoop or two short). There's no one specific thing. Sorry! I'd go back to your brew day logs and look at what you did very carefully to see.
Kal |
Thanks for looking into that. Im going to try the brew again soon, so hopefully I get better results.
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hbohnet
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 33 Location: Canmore, AB
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Dibs,
The first time I brewed this had the same problem, OG was 1.048, not as low as yours. To compound the problem the batched finished at 1.019 instead of 1.014. Double checked everything, could not find any errors that might have caused this. I brewed again but lowered my normal mash efficiency by 5%, added more grain and hit the OG at 1.052, perfect. I just kegged this and the the batch finshed again at 1.019, exaclty the same as the first batch. So I am stumped as to the problem. The beer was very tasty even with the low ABV. I would be interested in what your FG is.
Kal, if I brew again was thinking of loweriong mash temp down to 158 or 156 to try and get the FG lower, any comment?
Thanks, Harry
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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hbohnet
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 33 Location: Canmore, AB
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Kal,
I have one of your 20 gal clones, blichmann kettles, etc. I followed your recipe exaclty, just adjusted for my mash efficency. I checked temp calibration. The first time I brewed this I think the yeast starter was not finished, you helped me with this. This time I followed brewers friend yeast pitch rate calculator and made sure the starter was finished. (watched your video, is great!!). Water is 100% RO, minerals added to give Ca-120, Mg-13, Na-18, Sulfate-97, Cloride-198. I thought the second brew would be much better because of the yeast starter but FG both times was identicle at 1.019. Any thoughts? Thanks
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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