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First Brew Day

 
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rtucker




Joined: 14 May 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: First Brew Day Reply with quote


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Just got finished with my first brew day with the new system. Overall it was acceptable. I got wort that I'm pretty certain will translate into drinkable beer. There's going to be a learning curve and my guess is I can probably do a little better on my next brews

Right from the beginning I notice I was getting about a two degree difference between the mash tun and the HLT. In order to maintain 152 degrees I had to set the HLT PID to 153/154. Not a big deal. If I have a degree of loss between the two tanks I can compensate.

My mash efficiency wasn't as good as I assumed. I went, what I thought, was conservative and estimated a 90% mash efficiency. I ended up coming in at 85%. I did not crush my own grain. I know it's recommended to have a little coarser crush for this system, but I haven't got a grain mill yet, maybe next brew. I also read some discussions that the Blichmann mash screen can improve efficiency. I had an old 16 gallon Bayou Classic that I converted into my tun to save a little money. My HLT and Boil kettle are both Blichmanns. At some point I'll need to replace the mash tun with another Blichmann.

I've seen a couple other people mention this in other posts. I got a good boil in my boil kettle but the temperature on my PID, my kettle thermometer, and my Thermapen never got above 208. If I stuck the thermapen right next to the element it read 212 and higher, but anything further than about a half inch from the element was lower than 212. As I said, I had a good rolling boil. It's just strange. FWIW, I live about 600 feet above sea level so it's not like I'm boiling in Denver.

The thing that shocked me most was the loss in the system after the mash. For a 5.5 gallon batch I started with a pre boil volume of 8.75 gallons. For a cooler mash using an immersion chiller I might typically start with 7 gallons. I boiled off almost a full 2 gallons (I somewhat expected this from my tests) I lost another gallon to what the pump wouldn't pick up and got left behind in the boil kettle. I think this is was surprised me the most. I lifted the hoses to drained them and got everything I could from the chiller. The pump would just not pick up that last gallon. That loss really does a number of the BH efficiency number

Overall the system works well. I'm not overly concerned about the efficiency. If I can improve it a bit, great. At least next time I'll have a better idea where to start.

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Roger Tucker
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: First Brew Day Reply with quote

Congrats on the first brew!

rtucker wrote:
There's going to be a learning curve and my guess is I can probably do a little better on my next brews

Yup! There's always learning to do on any setup.

Quote:
Right from the beginning I notice I was getting about a two degree difference between the mash tun and the HLT. In order to maintain 152 degrees I had to set the HLT PID to 153/154. Not a big deal. If I have a degree of loss between the two tanks I can compensate.

Having a HLT to MLT temperature lag is a very common issue as differences in equipment can cause this. To minimize the difference, make sure to:

- Calibrate both the MLT and HLT temp probes per the instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup
Unless both are calibrated with a known accurate thermometer at the mash temp, you don’t know if what you are seeing is accurate.

- Make sure to set up the PIDs per the instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup

- Use the thicker walled hoses I recommend here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hoses
Thicker hoses will lose less heat. Try to minimize distances as well.

- Set your mill gap crush per the recommendations here (0.045 to 0.050”): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/grain-mill
You want to mill looser for good flow, not tighter.

- Use the pumps I recommend here to ensure adequate flow: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/pumps

- Run both pumps at 100% open when mashing as per my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP instructions. To get good flow without any channeling use the kettles I recommend here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview

Other things that are sometimes done differently that can cause a differential:

- Make sure the heating elements are being fed 240V and not 120V. Running heating elements at 120V will result in ¼ the power you expect. You can check this by looking at the amp meter. A 4500W element will draw 18.8 amps while a 5500W element will draw 22.9 amps.

- Brewing in a very cold location may cause the MLT temp to drop slightly by the time it reaches the MLT temp probe.

This question gets asked a lot here the forum too. These threads may provide further hints:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25474
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26722
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30387
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28283

Quote:
My mash efficiency wasn't as good as I assumed. I went, what I thought, was conservative and estimated a 90% mash efficiency. I ended up coming in at 85%.

That's pretty high for a first try.

Quote:
I did not crush my own grain. I know it's recommended to have a little coarser crush for this system, but I haven't got a grain mill yet, maybe next brew.

Yup. Recommended! See above.

Quote:
I also read some discussions that the Blichmann mash screen can improve efficiency. I had an old 16 gallon Bayou Classic that I converted into my tun to save a little money. My HLT and Boil kettle are both Blichmanns. At some point I'll need to replace the mash tun with another Blichmann.

That will most certainly help.
Make sure to follow the BREW DAY STEP BY STEP and fly sparge for 60-90 mins. 90 mins is better.

Quote:
I've seen a couple other people mention this in other posts. I got a good boil in my boil kettle but the temperature on my PID, my kettle thermometer, and my Thermapen never got above 208. If I stuck the thermapen right next to the element it read 212 and higher, but anything further than about a half inch from the element was lower than 212. As I said, I had a good rolling boil. It's just strange. FWIW, I live about 600 feet above sea level so it's not like I'm boiling in Denver.

Have you calibrated the PID/temp probe?

Quote:
The thing that shocked me most was the loss in the system after the mash. For a 5.5 gallon batch I started with a pre boil volume of 8.75 gallons. For a cooler mash using an immersion chiller I might typically start with 7 gallons. I boiled off almost a full 2 gallons (I somewhat expected this from my tests) I lost another gallon to what the pump wouldn't pick up and got left behind in the boil kettle. I think this is was surprised me the most. I lifted the hoses to drained them and got everything I could from the chiller. The pump would just not pick up that last gallon. That loss really does a number of the BH efficiency number

You mean your boil off rate was higher than expected? You can lower the duty cycle while boiling if you like, or keep it as is and make more pre-boil wort.

Good to hear you're happy with the first brew!

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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rtucker




Joined: 14 May 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: First Brew Day Reply with quote

kal wrote:


- Calibrate both the MLT and HLT temp probes per the instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup
Unless both are calibrated with a known accurate thermometer at the mash temp, you don’t know if what you are seeing is accurate.



I have not calibrated. I'll definitely do that.

Quote:
I've seen a couple other people mention this in other posts. I got a good boil in my boil kettle but the temperature on my PID, my kettle thermometer, and my Thermapen never got above 208. If I stuck the thermapen right next to the element it read 212 and higher, but anything further than about a half inch from the element was lower than 212. As I said, I had a good rolling boil. It's just strange. FWIW, I live about 600 feet above sea level so it's not like I'm boiling in Denver.


kal wrote:

Have you calibrated the PID/temp probe?


As I mentioned above, I have not calibrated the probes, but I did stick my ThermaPen in the boil kettle while I was boiling and it matched the PID. So it would seem that the the PID is pretty close to actual temperature.

Quote:
The thing that shocked me most was the loss in the system after the mash. For a 5.5 gallon batch I started with a pre boil volume of 8.75 gallons. For a cooler mash using an immersion chiller I might typically start with 7 gallons. I boiled off almost a full 2 gallons (I somewhat expected this from my tests) I lost another gallon to what the pump wouldn't pick up and got left behind in the boil kettle. I think this is was surprised me the most. I lifted the hoses to drained them and got everything I could from the chiller. The pump would just not pick up that last gallon. That loss really does a number of the BH efficiency number


kal wrote:

You mean your boil off rate was higher than expected? You can lower the duty cycle while boiling if you like, or keep it as is and make more pre-boil wort.


No, the boil rate was as expected. The pump didn't pull the last gallon out the kettle during the chill phase. I did read some of the posts afterward stating that I should have really slowed down the rate of flow after the hop blocker became visible. Presumably, that'll prevent air from getting sucked into the hoses and allow the pump to keep a good suction to the last drop. I'm curious as to what your typical loss is in the boil kettle. How much wort do you typically leave behind.

_________________
You're not a country unless you have beer

Roger Tucker
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: First Brew Day Reply with quote

rtucker wrote:

No, the boil rate was as expected. The pump didn't pull the last gallon out the kettle during the chill phase. I did read some of the posts afterward stating that I should have really slowed down the rate of flow after the hop blocker became visible.


I take it you mean the Hop Stopper here?: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hop-stopper

The Hop Blocker is a different product from Blichmann: http://www.homebrewing.org/Hop-Blocker-from-Blichmann_p_1559.html?AffId=95

Quote:
Presumably, that'll prevent air from getting sucked into the hoses and allow the pump to keep a good suction to the last drop.

Yup! That's the idea.

Quote:
I'm curious as to what your typical loss is in the boil kettle. How much wort do you typically leave behind.

Very little. I also just posted a picture here from a brew a few weeks ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlvz8fgD8C/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
rtucker




Joined: 14 May 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: First Brew Day Reply with quote

kal wrote:


I take it you mean the Hop Stopper here?: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hop-stopper


Yes, I meant the hop stopper


Quote:
I'm curious as to what your typical loss is in the boil kettle. How much wort do you typically leave behind.

kal wrote:
Very little. I also just posted a picture here from a brew a few weeks ago:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlvz8fgD8C/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery


Well practice makes perfect, at least 95% perfect. That's my bar.

I'll try again in a few weeks.

_________________
You're not a country unless you have beer

Roger Tucker
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't expect to hit everything 100% the first time using any piece of equipment. 85% mash efficiency is fantastic and already 20-30% higher than the average homebrewer (not that efficiency is anywhere the most important thing).

Just like a racecar driver can't jump into a new car and get record lap times the first time out, a brewer needs a few brews under his belt with a new setup to get comfortable with the ins and outs.

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
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