|
|
|
|
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Squid
Joined: 09 Apr 2016 Posts: 33
|
Link Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: HLT / MLT temp disparity |
|
|
Hello all,
Just wondering what temp difference they are getting between their HLT and MLT when recirculating. I have to run the HLT 15 deg hotter than desired MLT temp typically. I'm only asking because I saw a pic of Kal's setup and the temp readout for HLT was the same as MLT which I find extraordinary.
Edit: Realised as I hit submit that this is probably the forum section to post it in. Sorry.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Master
Joined: 30 Jan 2016 Posts: 171 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic
Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.
|
Link Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a 3-4F degree difference once steady state. 15m of 12mm tubing in the HERMS coil.
I normally have my strike water in the MLT, Have the HLT to about 1" above the coils, and as the system is heating (HLT and MLT both circulating) I lag about 12-13F during heat up, and then have about 3-4 degree delta once up and mashed in.
As my MLT is a Keggle with a less than optimal false bottom, I mash in with good flow, and about 15-20 minutes in with a normal grain bill, say 10-11 pounds of nothing too gummy, it will start to lose heat, and it's usually due to flow issues.
I give the false bottom a scraping with the mash paddle, and it comes right back to the 3-4 degree delta in short notice.
For the Stout I brewed yesterday, I had the following grain bill:
9 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 70.6 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.8 %
12.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %
12.0 oz Munich 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.9 %
12.0 oz Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.9 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.9 %
My mash profile was a single infusion, 60 minutes.
Using the infusion calculator in BeerSmith, I took the total water volume in the HLT (10g) and MLT + HERMS (5g) and figured out the correct total temp to hit my 156 Mash Temp.. Worked out to about 160.
I set the HLT control to 164, and when the MLT hit 160, I reset the HLT PID to 160 and then mashed in. Restarted circulation, temp settled in at 155, and it flowed well.. About 15 minutes in, I saw it go from 156 and slowly start dropping 155, 154.. I then get out of my chair, Stir the mash some, note that it is "gummy" and make sure I scrape the false bottom.. As I'm doing that, I can see the flow rate pick right up again, and within a minute it's back at 156.
As the mash continues, it hits "max gummyness" at about 30-35 minutes, which is about when the bulk of the starch is in the water, but hasn't finished breaking down all the way yet. At about the 45 minute mark, it gets noticeably clearer, and thinner, and at this point, I give the grain bed one last big stir, and then basically have the last 15 minutes plus the mash out be the "vorlauf".
When it's 60 minutes in to the mash, I increase the HLT control to 172 for my 168 mashout.. Once the MLT gets to 168, I hold that for 15 minutes, then reconfigure for the sparge/transfer to Boil Kettle.
At about 10 minutes into the mashout, I reset the HLT element for 168 for sparge.
Each system is going to be slightly different due to environmentals, etc.
On a warm day, my temp difference may be only 2.. And the having to scrape the false bottom is basically due to me being cheap and recycling a Keggle to save money. The Blichmann or SS False Bottoms probably won't have that problem.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Squid
Joined: 09 Apr 2016 Posts: 33
|
Link Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gentlemen - thanks for the replies. I think both of you have made very applicable points in that I too am using a keggle with sketchy false bottom. and am having flow issues, such that all my hoses kink just after the quick release fitting and often the pump sucks the kinked portion flat. New thicker walled hoses have been ordered so hopefully that cures most of it. As far as stirring the mash - interesting as I always thought to leave it be after the initial stirring.
Just calibrated the probes and found them within 1 deg of the thermopen.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeffW
Joined: 19 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Going to move my MLT/HLT temp lag issue from my first post to jump onto another thread instead of starting an additional thread with the same issue. I have a 2-3 degree temp difference between the two.
Setup:
15 gal Blichmann
March pumps 115v (809-ss-hs-c)
Tubing is silicone (1/2" ID, part # 92-4389A from AIH)
Will attach a couple photos if I can figure it out.
My first brew day the MLT never got up to HLT temp (lagged by 2-3 degrees). Grain was milled at 0.045.
I tried with just water and had the same issue. HLT heats up ok (set to 152), MLT is circulating through HERMS, but temp in MLT never gets above 149/150 (gave it an hour and it maxed out at 150, barely). I confirmed that the temp probes were reading accurately with my Thermapen. Heating elements are getting 240V.
I could shorten my hoses by a small amount (maybe 6-8"), but from reading the other threads about this issue, I suspect this won't result in a fix.
I could increase the temp of the HLT by a few degrees to correct, but I would prefer to fix the problem, if possible.
Appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you!
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
285.49 KB |
Viewed: |
15552 Time(s) |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
224.49 KB |
Viewed: |
15552 Time(s) |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeffW
Joined: 19 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi, apologies for not replying to your previous response. I found your suggestions very helpful in the troubleshooting process. I worked my way through the threads you listed and, after some rearranging, still wasn't quite able to figure out the temp lag issue. This time around, I tried to include all of the information relevant to my setup, plus a couple photos.
The only thing I haven't done yet is re-check all of the PID settings on the control panel. Given that the temperature probes seem to be reading accurately (according to my Thermapen), I figured there was an issue I was missing somewhere in the setup/transfer. I will verify the PID settings and try the run again with water. I'll also go through the threads you suggested once more to make sure I didn't miss anything obvious.
Thanks! Greatly appreciate the help. Will let you know if I'm able to figure it out.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeffW
Joined: 19 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OD of my hose is 3/4" and both pumps are running full open.
Checked my PIDs today and they were all messed up. I thought for sure that would fix the problem, but I still have a 2 degree delta - seems very consistent, at least. Easy fix by just increasing the HLT by 2, but still very annoying. If it bothers me enough, maybe I'll try some 7/8" OD hose.
Appreciate the suggestions. Will update if I find the problem.
BTW: the Ruthess Rye clone was outstanding! Brewing the blonde ale tomorrow.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|