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Electreak
Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Link Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: Re-pitching yeast from Conical Fermenter. |
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Hello members. This is my first post on the forums. I'm glad to say I completed my electric brewery only a few months ago, but I've been brewing for 3 years now.
There are always things to learn so I joining the forums to be able to learn as much as possible.
To get to the question at hand. I have a brew that is lagering in an ss conical fermenter. I pitched 3 packages of california lager yeast at 69F, and let the temperature drop to 62F and stay there.
This beer was 1.065 OG before pitching the yeast.
I now am reading 1.035 SG, and it has been stuck there.
I know I can rouse the yeast by shaking the fermenter, but I am wondering if it would be easier, or better, to drain the yeast from the bottom of the fermenter, then just re-pitch it into the top of the fermenter.
If this is a good way to get the buggers devouring the sugars again, what are thing that I should be aware of while doing this process?
I understand that sanitation is probably number one.
Thank you in advance for any help on this,
Ryan
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Electreak
Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Link Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Kal
| Quote: | | - what's your batch size |
10 gallons
| Quote: | | - which yeast exactly? (Brand, number) |
I forgot to include this, sorry. I used Wyeast 2112 California Lager.
| Quote: | | - did you make a yeast starter? |
The Wyeast contains the starter in it. I just followed the instructions on the package.
| Quote: | | - did you aerate the wort? If yes, how, how long, and at what temp? |
I did not.
| Quote: | | - what was the malt bill? (Just grain types and % is fine) |
16lb Maris Otter
5lb Pale Malt
2lb Caramel Malt 45L
1lb Dextrine
| Quote: | | - how did you measure the starting gravity and the current gravity? |
I used the "Anpro Brix Refractometer" to measure the gravity both times. This was calibrated at room temperature according the the instructions that came with it.
The readings where taken just before pitching the yeast, and two weeks later. Both readings where just poured from the ball valve of the fermenter into a cleaned shot glass before using the dropper to extract, and place some wart on the site.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:05 am Post subject: Re: Re-pitching yeast from Conical Fermenter. |
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| Electreak wrote: | | To get to the question at hand. I have a brew that is lagering in an ss conical fermenter. I pitched 3 packages of california lager yeast (Wyeast 2112 California Lager) at 69F, and let the temperature drop to 62F and stay there. 10 gallon batch. |
While this is a controversial subject, IMHO you underpitched by about 50-100%. I would have used 4-6 smackpacks or made a starter.
I also recommend cooling the wort to a couple of degrees below pitch tem, aerating, then pitching. You'll get a cleaner tasting beer. More of an issue in lagers I find. For more information see page 43 of Brewing Classic Styles: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Brewing-classic-styles
| Quote: | This beer was 1.065 OG before pitching the yeast.
I now am reading 1.035 SG, and it has been stuck there.
I used the "Anpro Brix Refractometer" to measure the gravity both times. This was calibrated at room temperature according the the instructions that came with it. |
Optical refractometers can't be used to measure gravity when alcohol is present. Use them only to measure the OG. There are calculators available to compensate when alcohol is present but they're a bit wonky. I recommend: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Hydrometer-with-at-least-0-990-to-1-120-range
Your FG is likely much lower than you think.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - did you make a yeast starter? |
The Wyeast contains the starter in it. I just followed the instructions on the package. |
A starter means stepping up the yeast to the right size. The wort that's in the smackpack is only there to let you know the yeast is viable by having the package inflate. It doesn't step up the amount of yeast.
For more information see Chapter 6 of How to Brew ( http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/how-to-brew ) and Appendix A of Brewing Classic Styles ( http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Brewing-classic-styles ).
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - did you aerate the wort? If yes, how, how long, and at what temp? |
I did not. |
Aeration is critical. Before pitching the yeast, the wort must be aerated well to provide the yeast with the oxygen required for growth and reproduction as most of the oxygen was driven off during boiling. I use a Fizz-X device for 60 seconds: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=12
Or O2 from a tank with a stone: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Pure-oxygen-aeration-system-with-tank-and-diffusion-stone
(For lagers I tend to go the O2 way)
| Quote: | | Quote: | | - what was the malt bill? (Just grain types and % is fine) |
16lb Maris Otter
5lb Pale Malt
2lb Caramel Malt 45L
1lb Dextrine |
Ok - just wanted to make sure there wasn't something really weird that would give you an insanely high FG (like a very high amount of unfermentables). Doesn't appear that way.
For more details on fermenting, check my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP article for more info, specifically the last page "FERMENT AND PACKAGE": http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step
Also check out the recipes here on the site as they give fermenting suggestions in each of them (with slight variations depending on the beer): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/recipes
Good luck!
Kal
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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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Electreak
Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the great info Kal.
I took a reading with my hydrometer, and the current reading is 1.017. This does coincide with the calculator I found for converting refractometer readings.
I will look into the your other suggestions for the next time I do a batch.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Re-pitching yeast from Conical Fermenter. |
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| Electreak wrote: | I know I can rouse the yeast by shaking the fermenter, but I am wondering if it would be easier, or better, to drain the yeast from the bottom of the fermenter, then just re-pitch it into the top of the fermenter.
If this is a good way to get the buggers devouring the sugars again, what are thing that I should be aware of while doing this process? |
While the problems appear to be elsewhere, we never really answered your initial question (above).
Very few yeasts benefit from stirring or agitation to get them back into solution. It's usually not something that is done. If there's sugar left in the wort that the yeast wants, it'll get it. In other words, if attenuation is low, don't look at stirring or agitation as the solution or fix as opening up the vessel can do more harm than good (oxygenation, etc).
Some will argue that really flocculant yeast (yeasts that drop out of solution very quickly leaving a crystal clear beer) require agitation but that's not the case. By far one of the most floc'ing yeasts has to be this one from Fullers:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Wyeast-1968-London-ESB-Ale-Yeast
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/White-Labs-WLP002-English-Ale-Yeast
It's a yeast I use extensively in various styles (even some American IPAs) and I've never found the need to agitate or rouse the yeast.
The keys to proper fermentation are a lot of the points I mentioned above:
(1) Aerate the wort properly
(2) Pitch the right amount of yeast (either the right number of packs, or make a starter). A lager will need twice as much as an ale, a high gravity beer twice as much again.
(3) Maintain good temperature control (every yeast is different as to what temp to start at, what the end at, how to ramp if at all, and so forth. Generally speaking the temperature should NEVER drop during active fermentation. It's a one way ride up).
(4) Don't rush it, including leaving it a few days once the gravity appears to stop dropping to help the yeast clean up after itself.
(5) Don't take yeast away from an actively fermenting wort (ie: never rack during active fermentation).
Whenever someone things fermentation is stuck, I always say wait a week and measure again. You shouldn't be measuring daily.
Charlie Papazian had it right in the first popular homebrewing book published when he repeats “Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew” (RDWHAHB) over and over again. 99% of the times when a brewer wants to take action (usually after the wort is made) they're better off doing nothing.
Once you get a handle on how a specific yeast behaves (every one is slightly different) you probably won't be measuring other than the OG and FG. A few of the house yeasts I use are like this for me because I've used them so many times on recipes I know well.
Cheers,
Kal
_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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