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No Hose Move Brew Session Setup
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fseider




Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 156
Location: Two Naked Frogs Brewery; Reading, PA (USA); Interests: Beer, Frogs, Steampunk, Being Naked


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject: No Hose Move Brew Session Setup Reply with quote


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Has anyone done a setup where you do not need to move any hoses around during a brew session? Just a valve or set of valve positions? I know this wold involve a few more hoses and 3 way valves. I'd be curious to see if anyone has done this and what it takes or comments. A schematic would be great.

Thanks in advance.

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Two Naked Frogs Brewery, Winery, & Meadery
Reading, PA
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at building a hard plumbed setup originally (all stainless pipe). There's no hoses to move, but you move all the labour to cleaning after as cleaning is harder (all lines need to blown out instead of simply hanging hoses). So I stuck with silicone hoses as it's considerably less work.

YMMV

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have, I spent a lot of time designing and testing just that very thing and had a good working design and while its an easy brew day I found that the endless connections have threads that get lined with sugar, very hard to clean out and one day I couldn't get rid of an infection and spent 3 days taking apart and cleaning all the pipes and connections and valves, all had gunk in them and all that hard work made me sick to dismantle it but since hooking up just like kal's Im back to making great beer, I know I don't like changing hoses but it works and a hose is easier to clean than pipe and all the treaded connections
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Trevor O.




Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 4
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually planning the same thing right now, and posted it in another forum a couple of days ago. Here's what I'm thinking:



The kettles sit on top of a stainless steel table. The table has a front apron that hides all the plumbing, and the only things visible are the handles of the valves, which are mounted to the apron with the plumbing behind. The plumbing goes up through the table top rather than in front of it. Above the table top the plumbing is stainless steel, attached to the kettles and the table top with tri-clamps, so they can be removed for easy cleaning. Visually what you're left with is all shiny and pretty.

Below the table top the plumbing is silicone tubing to allow for flexibility in placement through this maze of tubes. They're attached with quick connects for easy removal and cleaning, and are slung over various hangers to keep them from dangling down below the apron. Everything is accessible from underneath.

Now the valves, the rectangles with inputs, outputs and a valve handle illustrated. The H2O fill valve is just a regular ball valve, the HLT, MLT, and BK valves are 3-way to toggle the flow from one place to another. The two Y couplings (connections with 2 lines going in and one line going out, with arrows for flow direction) have inline check valves before each input to prevent backflow into the other side.

Pumps are labeled P1, P2, and P3. I could not figure out how to do this with just 2 pumps, without adding too many valves and running the risk of things flowing the wrong way if all the valves were not positioned exactly right. The third pump solved this problem and actually made the valve labels very intuitive - one for each kettle, set to either recirculate or transfer to the next stage of the brew. I plan to just add another pump controller to the panel.

Of note, the sparge water goes through the HERMS coil like in Kal's setup to push out the wort in the coil from the mash recirculation and clean the coil. I have the BK set up for whirlpooling, but I suppose you could omit that and remove the BK valve all together, just using the valve on the kettle output instead to transfer the wort out. Flow rates can still be controlled with the output valve on each kettle. I didn't draw in the chiller, but plan to use a typical counterflow chiller, also mounted under the table. I hope to achieve pitching temps with one pass straight into the fermenter, but if not I could easily reconfigure the setup to recirculate the wort back into the boil kettle until pitching temp is reached, then transfer to the fermenter.

I'm still thinking all of this through, and appreciate any feedback!
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mcl




Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 155



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work. Would love to see it finished. I don't think you will be able to chill in on pass with a conventional cfc. There is no way I can about 4 months out of the year. What is your summer ground water temp? I don't have one but have used plate chillers and they are more efficient. I haven't switched to them for fear of clogging them.
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Trevor O.




Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 4
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcl wrote:
I don't think you will be able to chill in on pass with a conventional cfc. There is no way I can about 4 months out of the year. What is your summer ground water temp?


Well, in Southern California our groundwater temps are never very low. My plan to overcome this is to create a closed system with chilled water. Have a reservoir of water in a freezer kept at 33 degrees, pump that through the cfc, and back into the freezer into another reservoir to use next time.
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm building my brewery using that idea. I'm using camlock fittings but i didn't want to have to disconnect and reconnect hoses. I found a schematic using three way valves to help accomplish this. its in the november 2014 issue of BYO. I will still have the ability to disconnect all hoses for cleaning as well since it's not a hard plumbed design

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3167-build-a-better-homebrew-pump?ref=39


Last edited by Firebrewmedic43 on Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pic of the pumps using three way valves


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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, those types of pumps do have problems with priming. If you use the pumps I recommend in the build instructions with the larger center inlet and install the pumps a few feet below the kettles as I do, you won't have any priming issues and no bleeder valves are required.

Good luck!

Kal

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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, I have those pumps and they don't like bubbles and get a vapor lock easily, some times i have to unhook right at the pump just for a minute to release the air
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same pumps and only have issues with the wort pump. I've added a valve right before the inlet and that fixed the problem. I also open the valve on my boil kettle a min or two before I need to run the pump. That seems to give it time to fill up with liquid.
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used those particular pumps (809) because I had used them prior to finding this site. The orientation of the pump coupled with the "bleeder" valve worked well during my inaugural brew session on 1-1-17.
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a picture of my system...I don't have to move any hoses during my brew day...basically it's a hard plumbed system using silicone tubing that is easily broken down for cleaning. I used camlock fittings and have several 3-way valves in the system


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pgbond




Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Location: Boston


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firebrewmedic43 wrote:
here is a picture of my system...I don't have to move any hoses during my brew day...basically it's a hard plumbed system using silicone tubing that is easily broken down for cleaning. I used camlock fittings and have several 3-way valves in the system


That is a beast of a brew stand... what is it specifically?

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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a psuedo-commercial shelving unit i bought at Sams Club...They have similar ones at both Lowes and Home Depot. I opted for this type stand because it gave me some additional storage options/capabilities due to limited space for brewing. I also needed a place to mount my controller and I was able to do that using a fully articulating tv wall mount. Its on casters so I can move it around. The shelving beams come with cross braces but i also added plywood and then the black surface you see is a 48"x 60" stall mat i bought from Tractor supply, which I cut in half. It fits the unit perfectly.
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pgbond




Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Location: Boston


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firebrewmedic43 wrote:
Its a psuedo-commercial shelving unit i bought at Sams Club...They have similar ones at both Lowes and Home Depot. I opted for this type stand because it gave me some additional storage options/capabilities due to limited space for brewing. I also needed a place to mount my controller and I was able to do that using a fully articulating tv wall mount. Its on casters so I can move it around. The shelving beams come with cross braces but i also added plywood and then the black surface you see is a 48"x 60" stall mat i bought from Tractor supply, which I cut in half. It fits the unit perfectly.


Thanks!
I'm leaning towards something more open on the top/sides, but this gives me some great ideas. And, the stall mat is a slick idea too. Well done.

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LGarby




Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 66



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased the same shelving unit for my build and would like to put it on casters but am hesitant as the holes on the feet are offset and the metal is pretty thin. I figured I could build a base with 2/4s to mount the casters then attach the unit to the base but there is also the concerns of it being too top heavy etc.. Can you upload a pic of how you attached your casters to the base and a link to which casters you used?
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pgbond wrote:
Firebrewmedic43 wrote:
Its a psuedo-commercial shelving unit i bought at Sams Club...They have similar ones at both Lowes and Home Depot. I opted for this type stand because it gave me some additional storage options/capabilities due to limited space for brewing. I also needed a place to mount my controller and I was able to do that using a fully articulating tv wall mount. Its on casters so I can move it around. The shelving beams come with cross braces but i also added plywood and then the black surface you see is a 48"x 60" stall mat i bought from Tractor supply, which I cut in half. It fits the unit perfectly.


Thanks!
I'm leaning towards something more open on the top/sides, but this gives me some great ideas. And, the stall mat is a slick idea too. Well done.


the shelving unit is open i have placed corplast (plastic cardboard) on the insides and the top. I did that to hide some things that aren't visible in the picture

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/welded-rack-4-level/prod13130202.ip?xid=plp:product:1:2



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Last edited by Firebrewmedic43 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be looking at this wrong but I was tracing the hoses and couldn't see where you recirculate the hlt and the mash at the same time, for me it takes both pumps
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Firebrewmedic43




Joined: 23 Dec 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Tennessee

Drinking: barrel-aged Foreign Export Stout

Working on: Helles


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
I may be looking at this wrong but I was tracing the hoses and couldn't see where you recirculate the hlt and the mash at the same time, for me it takes both pumps


You would be correct. i do use my second pump to recirc the water in my HLT while my first pump is recirculating mash/wort through the HERMS coil. I have a paddle stirrer similar to whats in my MLT that can be used to mix the water in the HLT to keep the temperature homogeneous. I will be playing with both to see what will work best.
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