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Looking to get PH tester

 
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Looking to get PH tester Reply with quote


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I'm looking to purchase a PH tester but keep running into the same problem. Each tester I find is not rated above 122 degrees. So how would you measure your mash tun at 152 degrees? What testers are you guys using? and are you sure they give you accurate readings when you exceed that temp?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one I use and recommend has automatic temperature compensation up to 140F:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Hanna-Phep-5-pH-meter-model-HI-98128

By the time you take a sample it's usually lower than that. That said, I usually measure the mash directly as it's "close enough" for me.

Kal

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dp Brewing Company




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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you saying some people scoop out some of the mash in a cup and measure from that but you normally just measure straight from the mash tun itself? Do they make a tester that measures up to 160 degrees?
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about something like this?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/labinstruments/pHORP/waterproof-palm-ph-meter-ph220-c.htm

Be kinda cool to stick it on the wall behind the mash tun and use the cable to check PH.

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kal
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Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowpaige64507 wrote:
Are you saying some people scoop out some of the mash in a cup and measure from that but you normally just measure straight from the mash tun itself?

Yes.

Quote:
Do they make a tester that measures up to 160 degrees?

Not that I'm aware of, but given the very minor temp difference I didn't look any further. It won't "stop working" or be highly inaccurate above 140F.

Cooling a sample will let your probe last longer. I've never bothered as it's faster/more convenient to not take a sample and cool it off. I've have had the same probe since 2009 and brew about once a month.

shadowpaige64507 wrote:
What about something like this?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/labinstruments/pHORP/waterproof-palm-ph-meter-ph220-c.htm

Be kinda cool to stick it on the wall behind the mash tun and use the cable to check PH.


I've never used that one so I can't comment on the quality.

If you want something with separate wires/probes, this one gets good reviews by brewers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DTNDME/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001DTNDME&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=47DHNJP3U2CFFP4V

Kal

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McGruber




Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowpaige64507 wrote:
Do they make a tester that measures up to 160 degrees?

I had a lot of problems with my Hanna pHep the last two brew days. The last brew session it was so inaccurate despite soaking in cleaning solution, rinsing with RO water, and calibrating it in 7 and 4 solutions several times I swore I'd never use it again. It was completely useless and I have no idea if my mash or sparge water was correct. I bought the ThermoWorks 8100 (Precision pH Meter and Probe Kit). http://www.thermoworks.com/Precision-pH-Kit-8100?tw=ELECTRICBREW

It compensates to 212' F, but you have to put both the thermometer and pH probe into the solution. I haven't used it yet other than a quick test after calibration, but I'm hopeful it will be more reliable.



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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGruber wrote:
I had a lot of problems with my Hanna pHep the last two brew days. The last brew session it was so inaccurate despite soaking in cleaning solution, rinsing with RO water, and calibrating it in 7 and 4 solutions several times I swore I'd never use it again.

How old was the probe? Was the probe tip still wet when you received it? I've heard of cases where some people are receiving probes that are completely dried out as they've been sitting too long before being sold.

Kal

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GrumpyWally




Joined: 06 Mar 2015
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGruber wrote:
It compensates to 212' F,


FWIW I found this in the Operating Instructions:

Please note: The ATC only works between 32°F (0°C) and 140°F (60°C).
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Ben58




Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Phep5 but if I would do it again, I would buy this - http://www.milwaukeeinstruments.com/site/products/products/standardportable-meters/81-products-g-standard-portable-meters-g-mw102
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben58 wrote:
I have a Phep5 but if I would do it again, I would buy this - http://www.milwaukeeinstruments.com/site/products/products/standardportable-meters/81-products-g-standard-portable-meters-g-mw102

Yup - that's the one here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DTNDME/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001DTNDME&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=47DHNJP3U2CFFP4V

If you follow/read HomeBrewTalk and other brewing forums, it gets good reviews.

Kal

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mvakoc




Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 152
Location: Evergreen, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Phep5 and have not been impressed with its use over the long term, even with replacement tips. I believe I store it properly with storage solution and calibrate it occasionally and never have the tip not in storage solution or water. Just doesn't seem reliable.

I would look for another product but it turns out I have very stable water that is extremely predictable and I have to adjust with acid very little if at all for most malt types.
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McGruber




Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrumpyWally wrote:
FWIW I found this in the Operating Instructions: Please note: The ATC only works between 32°F (0°C) and 140°F (60°C).

Total buzz kill GrumpyWally. Ha. I missed that (they buried it in ERRORS and I haven't had anything to troubleshoot yet). There is an ability to manually correct for the temperature on the 8000 and 8100. I wonder it would then be correct to 212' F. I'll contact them and play with it and get back. Planning on brewing on Sunday.


Last edited by McGruber on Tue May 10, 2016 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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McGruber




Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
How old was the probe? Kal

I've had it for almost a year. It came wet, and I've always kept it wet stored in "storage solution" that I ordered from Hanna. I've had problems on a handful of occasions with pH drift, but after soaking in cleaning solution and re-calibrating it usually fixes the problem. This time it was telling me repeatedly that my RO water had a pH of 3.5 and slowly but steadily climbed to 8 when left there for a long time...even after several calibrations. I know after testing my water every brew day that that's not correct. I'm going to contact them for a replacement probe, but I needed to try something else in the meantime.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange! Sounds like a bad probe - unfortunate!

Kal

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jcav




Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same Hanna Phep 5 that Kal recommends. I must have gotten lucky and have a good one so far. I keep it in storage solution. I calibrate it with the 7 and 4 solutions and it's been working great. Hopefully it will continue to work well for a long time......

John

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SD Endorf




Joined: 24 Apr 2015
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a number of Ph meters over the years. With the cheap ones, you're better off not using one at all since the "reading" will inevitably point you down the wrong path for additions corrections.

As noted above, the Hanna and Milwaukee stick meters are very popular but present a confusing assortment of anecdotal reviews. In other forums, it seems 50% swear by Hanna; 50% swear by Milwaukee, each citing previous problems with one or the other. The only logical conclusion seems to point to quality control issues with the probes. Some of you are lucky enough to achieve consistent results, but I think it's hit and miss. I've used both in the past, meticulously cared for the probes with storage solution and calibration solution, yet still received inaccurate readings including horrendous drift. A noted workaround for drifting problems is to store the probe in 7.01 solution a couple of days prior to brew day if you're drifting upward, and 4.01 solution if you're drifting downward.

So far, the only consistent results I've had, are with the Milwaukee MW102. Very pleased with this unit.

To the OP, I'm not sure why you would want to test your Ph at 152, (or ever in the kettle for that matter). It takes less than a minute to cool such a small wort sample to room temperature. Since readings can be tenuous under the best conditions, why add another needless variable? FWIW, I measure at room temperature rather than relying on the probe to make that adjustment for me. Your probe will thank you for extending its life.
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McGruber




Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SD Endorf wrote:
A noted workaround for drifting problems is to store the probe in 7.01 solution a couple of days prior to brew day if you're drifting upward, and 4.01 solution if you're drifting downward.

I haven't seen this before and I'll give it a chance. However, it seems counter-intuitive and I just wanted to double check it's not reversed?

SD Endorf wrote:
It takes less than a minute to cool such a small wort sample to room temperature.

How do you accomplish this? It takes me two minutes of blowing on a small sample in a tiny tupperware cup to get it to 140. This gets tedious when I'm adding several doses of lactic acid.
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dp Brewing Company




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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be the first to state, I know nothing about this topic. I glad for everyone's input. I was just going by the video's I've seen on Kal's site. I see him dip it in the mash tun and check in several location, so that seemed like the norm to me. Again, I'm just learning everything I can so I don't make bad purchases (like a cheap one that someones above stated is worthless).
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SD Endorf




Joined: 24 Apr 2015
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGruber wrote:
SD Endorf wrote:
A noted workaround for drifting problems is to store the probe in 7.01 solution a couple of days prior to brew day if you're drifting upward, and 4.01 solution if you're drifting downward.

<<<I haven't seen this before and I'll give it a chance. However, it seems counter-intuitive and I just wanted to double check it's not reversed?>>>

I was going by memory from a post by noted ajdelange. Couldn't find it again. Fairly certain that is correct. Wont hurt anything if reversed, but I'll see if I can find the post.

SD Endorf wrote:
It takes less than a minute to cool such a small wort sample to room temperature.

<<<How do you accomplish this? It takes me two minutes of blowing on a small sample in a tiny tupperware cup to get it to 140. This gets tedious when I'm adding several doses of lactic acid.
>>>

I find a set of cheap stainless steel bowls from a kitchen store work wonders due to their heat transferring capability.
Fill the large one with cool tap water. Put your wort sample in the small bowl and swirl inside the larger bowl of water. I can get to room temp in about 20 seconds. Larger samples (such as needed for hydrometers) take a couple of minutes.
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