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Belgian Tripel
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Swampale wrote:
I was expecting an OG of 1.082 but only got 1.070. I didn't do a step mash, but could of. Would that of helped?

Not really. It's the maximize fermentability (mostly). More info in this thread here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=315652#315652

What mash efficiency did you assume? I usually go slightly lower for a high ABV beer like this (93% instead of 95% in this case) as it's completely normal for mash efficiency to drop on higher ABV beers since you're rinsing more sugars with less water. I'm assuming you're fly sparging.

While I don't know what sort of setup you have, here are some things to look for if you wish to maximize your mash efficiency on a setup that is based on my design (HERMS, fly sparge, recirculating):

(1) Mill gap setting: I recommend between 0.045" and 0.050" if building a clone of my setup. Finer is not better with recirculating systems such as this and will actually lower your mash efficiency. Most in-store crushes are already too fine for recirculating systems. They assume you're not using a recirculating systems. Milling too fine can also cause stuck sparges/recirculation. More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/grain-mill

(2) Mash tun geometry/configuration: I recommend Blichmann kettles and their false bottom. The false bottom is slotted across the entire area which helps avoid channeling. The false bottom also sits on a stepped kettle edge which helps avoid sidewall shunting. When the grain is rinsed of sugars in the Mash/Lauter Tun during the lautering phase, the liquid will always try to take the most direct path / path of least resistance. Channeling happens when the water flows towards a single spot or smaller area on the bottom of the mash tun, commonly seen when only a braided hoses or similar is used for wort pickup. The water flows directly to the slotted hose and ends up misses areas of grain which leaves sugar behind. By using an entire slotted bottom area like the Blichmann false bottom, the water instead moves from top to bottom in a piston-like manner and no grain is left unwashed. Sidewall shunting happens when the liquid passes between the wall of the kettle and the mass of grain. This also reduces the amount of sugar removed from the grain. Since in our setup there is no easy path for the liquid to pass through at the kettle/false bottom junction, sidewall shunting is greatly reduced or basically eliminated and mash efficiency increases. More info:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview

(3) Post boil gravity: Make sure to mix your pre-boil wort well in the boil kettle before taking a gravity reading as otherwise the thicker wort with more sugar will be in the bottom and throw off your pre-boil gravity (it will be too low and you will incorrecty assume that your mash efficiency is low when it may not be).

(4) Hydrometer temperature compensation: Make sure to compensate for temperature when using your hydrometer. Most are only accurate at either 60F or 68F. More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=7

(5) Hydrometer calibration: Has your hydrometer been calibrated? More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=7

(6) Sparge time: The longer you fly sparge, the higher the mash efficiency. Aim for 60-90 minutes, or even up to 120 minutes.

(7) Grain bed disturbance: Do not touch the grain bed after mashing in all the way through to until you're done sparging. Doing so can hurt your efficieny as you may cause channelling.

(8) Sparge water temp: Sparge water should be hot but not too hot (168-170F). This helps with sugar extraction.

(9) pH: Keep your pH in check to maximize sugar extraction. More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

(10) Volume of wort: Make sure your volume of wort in the boil kettle is accurate. If you sparge too long and collect too much wort in the boil kettle, the gravity will be lower than you expected.

(11) Mash duration: The longer you mash, the more starch that is converted to sugars. The lower the mash temperature, the longer this takes.

Some people confuse mash efficiency with brewhouse efficiency. Mash efficiency is how well the setup is able to extract sugars from grain in the mash tun while brewhouse efficiency is the entire efficency from start to end of the brewing setup and while it includes mash efficiency it also factors in how much wort get into the fermenters (some is lost due to hop/trub absorption), dead space that can't be transferred, and so forth. Brewhouse efficiency will always be lower than mash efficiency. For the most part I don't care about my brewhouse efficiency with the tiny volumes we produce at the homebrew level. If a cup or two gets left behind here or there that's fine and we can't do anything about wort absorbed by hops.

Cheers!

Kal

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Swampale



Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Cavan, Ont.


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal. I wasn't sure what efficiency to expect using my Robobrew with this style of beer for the first time. I have brewed this style of beer on my old 3 vessel system about 3 times. The first time I got 60% efficiency which went up to around 74% for the last one. I got 59% on this brew. I am okay with that, but would like to get near 70% to 80%. I mashed for 90 min. I can mash for 2 hours though. I have enough of my old Beaus bottles for another 5 gallon batch this fall and will give it another try. Thanks for the very thorough reply. Much appreciated.

Chris
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampale wrote:
Hi Kal. I wasn't sure what efficiency to expect using my Robobrew with this style of beer for the first time. I have brewed this style of beer on my old 3 vessel system about 3 times. The first time I got 60% efficiency which went up to around 74% for the last one. I got 59% on this brew. I am okay with that, but would like to get near 70% to 80%.

Ok, you're using a simplified single vessel BIAB based setup and not a 3-vessel setup or process I document here, so much of what I wrote previously above doesn't apply to you.

You won't get anywhere near as high efficiency on a single vessel system as you do on a 3-vessel system, especially if you do no-sparge on your single vessel setup.

In a typical 3-kettle setup such as the one I document and use in my Building Your Brewery articles, the kettles (boil, mash / lauter tun, hot liquor tank) are separated and the components used in each can be optimized for the specific steps they perform. With simplified one or two kettle setups where steps (heating, mashing, sparging, boiling) are combined, sacrifices have to be made.

More info: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/faq#Why_did_you_choose_a_three_kettle_setup_instead_of_one_or_two_

59% sounds low however. You could try reaching out to the manufacturer or store where you purchased your setup for assistance on how to best use it.

Cheers!

Kal

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Swampale



Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Cavan, Ont.


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sparge with around 4 gallons of water. I may make my next Triple on my 3 vessel 15 gallon system which I still have but only use in the garage in the summer. I will brew only 23 L when I make a Triple, so I can easily up the grain bill.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every setup is different, so given this was the first time using it on a new setup you're not familiar with plus a BIAB setup, it's normal that your mash efficiency is lower. It always takes a few brews on any setup before you maximize the potential of the setup. Your mash time of 90 mins should be adequate. Cheers!

Kal

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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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Last edited by kal on Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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snowtiger87



Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Location: Denver, CO (No longer Afghanistan)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The melanoidin addition is curious to me. I would normally go with Belgian biscuit or aromatic malt. I also add white beet sugar (GW from Colorado) to help dry it out. I get it down to about 1.004 or so despite the high OG.

I just attempted a 12 gallon single mash/boil to end up with 6 gallons of Belgian Golden Strong and 6 gallons of Tripel. The BGS got 2 lbs of white beet sugar and the Tripel got 1.5 lbs of turbinado sugar and 1 tsp or orange peel. I did this by pulling out 2 quarts of wort at knockout, dividing it into 2 pots, then dissolving the appropriate sugar and adding each to the 2 fermenters. It is still fermenting now so I will report back with the results. OG was 1.085 for the BGS and 1.081 for the Tripel. I used the Chouffe yeast for both. Mug
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windquest



Joined: 13 May 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Apache Jct, AZ


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal, I tasted a raspberry triple that was fantastic, any thoughts of how much raspberry purée I should use in the brute tank for a reasonable flavor profile? Thanks for all the great recipes!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea - sorry! It's not something I've brewed with.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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