Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ

Exhaust Fan Question
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Building Your Brewery
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Exhaust Fan Question Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Unfortunately, I have the Vortex S-600 exhaust, rated at 340 CFM. Not being an engineer, I'm really winging it here. So, before I finish the installation (cutting holes going outside, mounting the fan, etc) I thought I'd get some sort of an idea as to whether that will be adequate to handle the brewery's needs (if not, I'll cut my losses, scrap this fan and order the VTX 600 that was originally recommended).

My hood is 2' by 6.5' and 1 foot top to bottom. The exhaust is on the end (the same end as the boil kettle). The bottom of the hood is about 20" above the top of my kettles. I have about a 3.5-4 foot run total from hood outlet to outside vent cap with two right angle elbows (a 90 degree elbow at the hood outlet pointing up, 1 foot of duct to another 90 degree elbow pointing to the rear and connecting directly to the fan and then about another 1 foot run out the back of the house. All ducting is 6" until the output of the fan where I'm contemplating a 6" to 4" reduction out the back of the house, which would be about 12-15" to the vent cap.

Thanks in advance for any advice.



IMG_0038.JPG
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  IMG_0038.JPG
 Filesize:  286.64 KB
 Downloaded:  290 Time(s)

Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have this fan here?: http://amzn.to/2IJGYth

It's rated as 347 CFM. The one I use is rated as 452 CFM. Given that they're the same manufacturer you can likely compare these numbers. 347 isn't that far from 452 in real world use as once you through some back pressure on these fans they probably have more the same than different.

Without doing some fancy HVAC calculations (which I actually have no idea how to do/don't have the numbers to do), I'd say you're probably fine.

Note that the sort of math required to calculate true flow based on turns/diameters/reductions is incredibly complex and usually not done. Meaning I don't think there's anywhere here that can really confirm anything for you. They'd have to model exactly what you have into simulators and overlay with with static pressure map of the exact fan you're using (assuming that's even available which I don't think they are) to know how it behaves to know the real CFM of the fan under load and then figure out if that CFM is adequate for your boil rate by measuring how much water your exact setup puts in the air. The make-up system you're planning on using would also have to come into play.

Try boiling some water for a couple of hours at 100% power and see what happens. Wink My guess is that you'll be perfectly fine.

Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is the fan I have. Thanks for the quick response. I did research and, frankly, though my math background isnít bad, I was confused to say the least. So, I guess Iíll do exactly like you state - finish the install, boil off a couple gallons an see. If itís not adequate weíll just have to step up to the one you originally recommended. Fingers crossed.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 659
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the same fan I use. Seems to work fine for my setup.
_________________
Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
Back to top
View user's photo album (3 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thatís encouraging to know. Thanks.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonus points too that itís slightly quieter than the one I use/recommend. I say slightly because most of the noise youíll hear is from air movement through the ductwork and not the actual fan. If you have yours somewhat hidden or away in the ceiling it makes even less of a difference. Still a lot quieter than propane or NG burners. 😉

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 659
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly it is also very low in power consumption. I think only 40 or 50 watts.
_________________
Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
Back to top
View user's photo album (3 photos)
wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be willing to bet that fan would be fine. My setup uses a 460 CFM fan and I can boil 45 gallon batches with a 4 gallon per hour boil-off rate (50 amp control panel with dual elements in the kettle). My hood is very similar to yours and the key is having the boil kettle close to the fan intake, like you're already doing.
_________________
Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
Back to top
JMD887



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 115
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: EMPTY :(

Working on: Two Hearted Clone


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan Question Reply with quote

daboyce67 wrote:


My hood is 2' by 6.5' and 1 foot top to bottom. The exhaust is on the end (the same end as the boil kettle). The bottom of the hood is about 20" above the top of my kettles. I have about a 3.5-4 foot run total from hood outlet to outside vent cap with two right angle elbows (a 90 degree elbow at the hood outlet pointing up, 1 foot of duct to another 90 degree elbow pointing to the rear and connecting directly to the fan and then about another 1 foot run out the back of the house. All ducting is 6" until the output of the fan where I'm contemplating a 6" to 4" reduction out the back of the house, which would be about 12-15" to the vent cap.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


thats a nice looking vent- who manufactured it/ where did you find it... currently shopping around.

thanks,
John
Back to top
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a ďone-offĒ custom made locally here in Hayward, Wisconsin. My nephew runs a welding shop here and he also does some metal work. Gave him a plan and he made it in his shop. Cost me about the same as the ones from Fast Kitchen hoods (which was my first choice). But I saved the steep shipping costs from the Fast Canadian outlet to here in northwestern Wisconsin (would have pretty much doubled the cost of the hood). He did a pretty decent job - Iím certainly pleased with how it turned out.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, there's nothing overly special about the hood from Fast Kitchen Hoods - I simply chose them due the close proximity to me. Shipping to far away addresses or outside the country (they're in Canada) doesn't really make sense as any restaurant supply shop or stainless shop should be able to make one to your specs. Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, finally an update. I installed the Vortex S-Line exhaust fan and took it thru a boil test. The plan was to boil off a couple gallons, much like would occur when brewing a typical 10 gallon batch. Anyhow, the long and the short of it was that the fan was a bust. It had no problem moving the generated steam out through the exhaust ducting. The issue was condensation within the fan itself. Mind you, this fan has a plastic oval shape with a seam in the middle. It began to leak out the area where the cord exits the fan as well as the white plastic seam that connects the two halves of the fan together. It also leaked out the exhaust end of the fan where it is clamped in the included bracket used to mount the fan. That end of the fan has a rubber gasket running around it in an attempt to create a seal with the mounting "strap" that holds the fan to the bracket. Unfortunately it didn't work as presumably designed.

I called the company (Vortex) and talked to their technical staff. Their first recommendation is to mount the fan vertically so that the moisture would run back down into the hood and hopefully back into the BK (rather than horizontally, as I have it) but I am not able to do that (and didn't believe that was a valid solution). Their next recommendation was to mount it tipped down so the moisture would run out the exhaust end but that option wasn't available to me due to a lack of head room based on where I have it mounted. So lastly, knowing that you opted to remove a screw to allow it to drain and since there were no screws in the plastic housing, I asked whether drilling a hold in the bottom would resolve the issue. They stated it would void the warranty but that it could work and told me where to place the hole. Unfortunately, although it did allow some moisture to drip out from that hold, it continued to ooze out between the rubber gasket on the exhaust end of the fan. So all and all, not a good solution.

So, here's my question. Is this condensation something we are destined to live (and deal) with and, if so, has removing the screw from the Vortex VTX model that you use and sealing the wire entry point been sufficient to resolve this issue for you guys? If so, I'll just bite the bullet and upgrade to the VTX (which I likely should have purchased to begin with but that's a whole other story).
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="daboyce67"]So, here's my question. Is this condensation something we are destined to live (and deal) with [/quote[
If the steam has a chance to cool, some condensation will occur. It's normal. It's why I have a drip hole. Insulating helps minimize cooling of the steam which in turn minimizes the condensation but there's always going to be sone.

Quote:
has removing the screw from the Vortex VTX model that you use and sealing the wire entry point been sufficient to resolve this issue for you guys?

I get about 1/4 to 1/2 cup dripping out of mine per brew day. So yes, works fine.

The trick is to not try and stop condensation from occurring at all. You instead want to minimize it (short ducts, insulated, etc) and capture it/direct it.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 659
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the louvers I installed on my hood, the condensation develops on the louvers not the fan housing. I've angled them back a bit and the water runs to the back of hood where I installed a drain track. Not sure if that helps your situation but thought I would speak up in case you were still brainstorming.
_________________
Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
Back to top
View user's photo album (3 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kal"]
daboyce67 wrote:
So, here's my question. Is this condensation something we are destined to live (and deal) with [/quote[
If the steam has a chance to cool, some condensation will occur. It's normal. It's why I have a drip hole. Insulating helps minimize cooling of the steam which in turn minimizes the condensation but there's always going to be sone.

Quote:
has removing the screw from the Vortex VTX model that you use and sealing the wire entry point been sufficient to resolve this issue for you guys?

I get about 1/4 to 1/2 cup dripping out of mine per brew day. So yes, works fine.

The trick is to not try and stop condensation from occurring at all. You instead want to minimize it (short ducts, insulated, etc) and capture it/direct it.

Kal


Kal,

Ok, so the S-600 exhaust fan clearly wasnít gonna work. It was leaking out of seam that connects the two halves of the fan body together. Out of frustration I decided to scrap that fan and ordered the VTX fan that you all are using. Installed it, removed the screw that Vortex recommended removing. We got all the duct work reconnected and did a test. The fan did leak out of that hole. Additionally it leaked water out of the seam between the two halves of the exhaust fan. Is that what you guys are seeing also. I contacted Vortex support and they were somewhat at a loss. They wondered if I shouldnít try to seal the seam, possibly applying silicone to the seam to keep it from leaking there.

My question, are you also seeing water oozing out along the seam and, if so, have you done anything to rectify that or have you just let it drain there also and collect it, possibly with a bucket? If youíre not seeing moisture coming out anywhere else other than the hole where you removed the screw than I clearly have something wrong or a problem fan.

Thanks for any help here.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daboyce67 wrote:
Out of frustration I decided to scrap that fan and ordered the VTX fan that you all are using. Installed it, removed the screw that Vortex recommended removing. We got all the duct work reconnected and did a test. The fan did leak out of that hole. Additionally it leaked water out of the seam between the two halves of the exhaust fan. Is that what you guys are seeing also. I contacted Vortex support and they were somewhat at a loss. They wondered if I shouldnít try to seal the seam, possibly applying silicone to the seam to keep it from leaking there.

You may want to seal around the seam like you mentioned. I do mention sealing the electrical box cover and wire entry point in the build instructions so make sure to do that.

I do not have water dripping out elsewhere.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
daboyce67 wrote:
Out of frustration I decided to scrap that fan and ordered the VTX fan that you all are using. Installed it, removed the screw that Vortex recommended removing. We got all the duct work reconnected and did a test. The fan did leak out of that hole. Additionally it leaked water out of the seam between the two halves of the exhaust fan. Is that what you guys are seeing also. I contacted Vortex support and they were somewhat at a loss. They wondered if I shouldnít try to seal the seam, possibly applying silicone to the seam to keep it from leaking there.

You may want to seal around the seam like you mentioned. I do mention sealing the electrical box cover and wire entry point in the build instructions so make sure to do that.

I do not have water dripping out elsewhere.

Kal


Well, I can certainly do that. On the other hand, since so many of us are using the same fan, I see no reason why my fan should be behaving any differently anyone elseís. The Vortex support person asked me to contact you to see if your fan was behaving like mine, and if not, then to call them back. Since itís after hours there, Iíll call them tomorrow.

I do have one other related question. I am no engineer so I have no idea what could be causing this, but there is one thing that Iíve wondered about. My duct on the outbound side of the fan the 6Ē outlet of the fan connects to a 4Ē duct that exits the house. Can that restriction have enough of a negative effect on the airflow to contribute to the amount of condensation Iím seeing?
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10294
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've made me second guess myself as it's been 10 years since I installed my own Vortex fan, so I went and double checked and I do have a bead of silicone sealant around the outside seam. I probably did this at the same time that I sealed up the electrical box cover and wire entry point as a 'just in case' thing. I don't remember having leaks around the seam.

I would simply do that and be done with. I doubt there's anything wrong with your fan. Fit and finish likely varies slightly between units and everyone has a slightly different install, so I wouldn't expect them all to behave identically. Put a thin bead on the seam and be done. I doubt there's anything wrong with your unit.

That said, I know many have posted here having great success with the newer model you had issues with so there may be something about your setup that causes issues.

Any restrictions to airflow could possibly have negative effects. No idea if there's enough however to cause the issues you're seeing (that's not something that can easily be judged with the information on hand).

Kal

EDIT: Sealing the seam is probably a prudent idea. I see no downsides. So I've added the following now to the build instructions in the ventilation section:

"We also recommend applying a thin bead of silicone around the perimeter seam between the two halves of the unit. This will ensure that all moisture is forced out the screw hole in a controlled manner and not out any small cracks or gaps."

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
daboyce67



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a side note, I noticed the label on the side of the fan that states "Suitable for dry locations only. Not for use in the kitchen". Yet when I contacted Vortex support, they did not mention this, even after I explained the issue I was seeing. Which just creates more confusion since if you go to their website and select "Applications" up comes a webpage of "Typical Residential Applications" and at the top of the display is the VTX600 as a kitchen exhaust fan. Very confusing. Oh, well.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Building Your Brewery All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Support our site by purchasing through this link. We thank you!

Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group