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hop stopper - the achilles heal of the electric brewery
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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I'll be darned... that's pretty much exactly what I had come up with. I actually haven't tried it out yet though.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/516iwejt4umpg7t/2015-01-04%2016.45.59.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwo5otvsdcem5ih/2015-01-04%2015.58.17.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cirvxh2gakd4tb6/2015-01-04%2015.54.15-1.jpg?dl=0
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zeppman




Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 138



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco,

where/how did you get that stainless steel tubing? That looks excellent! I can't wait to try this... I will be so happy if this works out as well as it did for the guy in the youtube video.
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zeppman




Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 138



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to give an update here:

Saturday I brewed for the first time without the hop stopper. I used the original blichmann dip tube and just modified it slightly so it would pick up closer to the kettle wall.

-5 min before flame out, I pumped boiling wort through the pump, CFC and back into the kettle.
-At flameout, I did my best to start a whirlpool by hand, stirring with my mash paddle. I only did this for maybe 30 seconds at most. I then placed the lid on the kettle and left it alone for about 5 min.
-After the 5 min. was up, I began the normal drain sequence. However, I drained quite a bit faster then what I normally would with the hopstopper in place. I was able to drain all 5.5 gallons (leaving about 1/4gal in the kettle) in 10 min.

While this recipe only called for 3oz of hops, I was more then pleased. I had a decent cone shape of hops and trub left in the center of the kettle. The wort being drained into my fermentation bucket looked rather clear. It made my brew day a lot more simple, and for probably the first time, I hit my numbers without having to scale or compensate for leaving 1-2gal of wort in the kettle when using the hopstopper. (This also made the ingredient list cheaper due to not having to compensate for loss of wort). I can not wait to try this again. I considered it a great success. I'll post back again after the beer is on tap.

This week I should receive the rest of the materials needed to make an dedicated whirlpool arm that will hang over the kettle wall. I did not want to go punching more holes in my kettle until I try this method a few more times.

For those who are not happy with the hopper stopper, I would highly recommend trying this method if you're not concerned with getting a little trub in the fermentor. I'm completely OK with this since I harvest yeast from the yeast starter, not the fermentor, and after reading up on the test results posted on the eBEERiment blog where he compared trub vs non-trub beers, I believe some trub is not an issue. (Go check it out if you haven't read it, very interesting!)
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Joebrewing




Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did something similar with my last brew, and the one change I would make to your process is to start pumping the liquid through the cfc at flameout. I did it a few minutes before and the boil stopped because of the heat loss. It dropped from 210 to 205.
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zeppman




Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 138



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe - yeah, I noticed, and kind of expected that to happen. I just wanted to be sure that everything was santizied (thinking the hotter the wort the better). It quickly returned to a boil after I cut out the pump. I didn't think it would do anything negative to the beer.
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foomench




Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking about this as well. I throw my wort chiller in for the last five minutes of the boil for sanitation. In both these cases you could just increase the heat, or live with it. With the boil killed you aren't getting the highest hop utilization, but utilization for just five minutes isn't much. Are you decreasing even the aromatic and flavor extraction from the hops? Or is a tea analogy better, where some people say that you don't really want boiling, but a slightly lower temperature. (For tea and coffee there are other issues as well.)

From a sanitation standpoint, I don't think the temperature drop is really an issue. We like to think of boiling as sanitizing. But I recall Chris White saying that you really needed 180F temperatures for about 15 minutes for sanitation. So I think the last five minutes of near boil and for me the first ten minutes of chilling covers things.

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chastuck




Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 193
Location: Beckenham, Kent, UK

Drinking: Bitter

Working on: IPA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Whirpooling and hop filters Reply with quote

Personally, I have always found the recommended hop stopper works just fine for me. However, in terms of whirlpooling, this Dutch site has an interesting idea for a weldless whirpool kettle inlet and a novel idea for an accompanying hop filter. Interestingly, the same filter, albeit longer, can also be used for mashing. https://store.brewpi.com. I have bought a HERMS coil from them for my Blichmann HLT and also some weldless input tubes and I am very pleased with their quality. Although their fittings are BSP, I find they mate with no problems to the equivalent NPT size. Not everything great in brewing is from the USA!
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Creepy




Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 127
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Whirpooling and hop filters Reply with quote

chastuck wrote:
Personally, I have always found the recommended hop stopper works just fine for me. However, in terms of whirlpooling, this Dutch site has an interesting idea for a weldless whirpool kettle inlet and a novel idea for an accompanying hop filter. Interestingly, the same filter, albeit longer, can also be used for mashing. https://store.brewpi.com. I have bought a HERMS coil from them for my Blichmann HLT and also some weldless input tubes and I am very pleased with their quality. Although their fittings are BSP, I find they mate with no problems to the equivalent NPT size. Not everything great in brewing is from the USA!

Charles, I have frequented that site for their fermentation control but haven't noticed that filter before. Have you heard feedback from anyone who has used it before? Looks like a brilliantly simple idea that would be incredibly effective. Curious if there is any experience with it out there?
Cheers!
Scott
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chastuck




Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 193
Location: Beckenham, Kent, UK

Drinking: Bitter

Working on: IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Whirpooling and hop filters Reply with quote

Creepy wrote:
chastuck wrote:
Personally, I have always found the recommended hop stopper works just fine for me. However, in terms of whirlpooling, this Dutch site has an interesting idea for a weldless whirpool kettle inlet and a novel idea for an accompanying hop filter. Interestingly, the same filter, albeit longer, can also be used for mashing. https://store.brewpi.com. I have bought a HERMS coil from them for my Blichmann HLT and also some weldless input tubes and I am very pleased with their quality. Although their fittings are BSP, I find they mate with no problems to the equivalent NPT size. Not everything great in brewing is from the USA!

Charles, I have frequented that site for their fermentation control but haven't noticed that filter before. Have you heard feedback from anyone who has used it before? Looks like a brilliantly simple idea that would be incredibly effective. Curious if there is any experience with it out there?
Cheers!
Scott

I have seen some limited comments on its use and they are favourable. So much so that I'm going to give the hop filter version a try when funds permit.
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foomench




Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool: https://store.brewpi.com/mashing/filtering/brewpi-matmill-lauterhexe-kit
I built something that looks very similar, but I used a stainless steel braided hose. I was concerned about the braid not being fine enough to be effective for pellet hops, or possibly clogging. As for the geometry, I thought the ring was good for being outside of a cone when whirlpooling, but I also though in my keggle that it might sit up too high, leaving excess wort in the keggle. Hmmmm ...

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ihomebrewsolutions




Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Posts: 19
Location: Knoxville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply From Innovative Homebrew Solutions Reply with quote

Zeppman,

I understand your frustration with equipment that doesn't work like you want it to. I wish you had contacted me, I troubleshoot with every single customer who contacts me with issues of any kind. I have probably the most generous and trouble-free return policy of anyone, to make absolutely sure that no homebrewer is stuck with a piece of equipment they can't use or don't like using. I put customer satisfaction above everything.

I'll be the first to admit that the Hop Stopper is not necessarily suitable to every brewery. In fact, for certain processes, I specifically recommend against using it. The first of these is the whirlpool. However, the only reason to do a whirlpool is to help with trub removal, since the Hop Stopper does that already, it makes whirlpooling totally unnecessary. If you try to do the whirlpool with the Hop Stopper in place, you compact all the hops and trub in and around the pick up area of the dip tube as the wort is recycled over and over and the trub pile accumulates right where the dip tube picks up wort. This also holds true for brewers who recirculate hot wort for sanitizing. Lastly, the whirlpool chilling process is particularly troublesome for the Hop Stopper or virtually any screen. The addition of cold break along with recycling wort and over really plays havoc with the flow through the screen.

Here are some tips that I recommend for every Hop Stopper user:

1) Do not recirculate. If you use hot wort recirculation for sanitizing, switch to a no-rinse sanitizer. If your brewery is specifically set up for hot wort sanitizing, then meter the flow during recirculation to the slowest possible flow rate. This will help to prevent accumulation of trub piles near the pick up point on the dip tube.

2) Do not whirlpool. The only reason for whirlpooling is to help with trub removal. The Hop Stopper eliminates the need for whirlpooling. Just turn off the burner, allow any steeping time your recipe calls for, then drain.

3) When you open the ball valve on your outlet, do it slowly to avoid abrupt changes in flow (5 seconds or so). This will help to minimizing shifting any large trub piles toward the dip tube pick up point.

4) As mentioned by other posters, when using a pump, it's possible to empty out the screen cavity when the wort level drops below the level of the screen. This breaks the siphon while there is still wort in the kettle. If you see (or hear) any air being drawn into the line and you know there is still wort in the kettle, shut off the flow immediately and wait about 15 seconds. This will allow the screen cavity to fill back up and equalize with the rest of the kettle. Then start the flow again, slowly, and meter it at a reduced rate until the kettle is empty.

5) Last, and most important, contact me if you have problems (ihomebrewsolutions@theelectricbrewery.com). As I said, I will personally troubleshoot, make suggestions, or offer a refund. You are welcome to use the Hop Stopper as many times as you want for a year and if at any time you just can't get it to work to your satisfaction, you can return it.

I hope this has cleared up some of the issues mentioned in this thread. I have been doing business through The Electric Brewery for years and want to make sure every customer gets my full attention.

Prosit!

Dennis Collins
Innovative Homebrew Solutions

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Home of the Hop Stopper 2.0!
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itsnotrequired




Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 177
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

had an interesting problem with my brew yesterday. brewed a janet's brown ale and when i first went to chill, nothing was coming out of the counterflow chiller. i disconnected the incoming wort line and everything was smooth out of the bk, implying the hopstopper was working. hooked the bk outlet to the wort pump (bypassed the cfc) and everything flowed fine, implying i didn't have a pump problem. cfc blocked? i removed the wort outlet fittings and sure enough, tubing was jammed with hops. i shoved a pipe cleaner in about a foot and the hop bits came out, very fine pieces. hooked everything back up and was off to the races, no further blockages or hangups during chilling.

thoughts on what happened? hopstopper has performed just fine on past brews and worked fine after i cleared the jam. all i can think of is that janet's brown ale adds hops to the mash (i added pellets). could the mash hops have been 'pulverized' between the mash and boil to the point that they made it through the hopstopper screen? that's all i can think of. anyone else have this problem?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange! Never had that issue myself. My CFC has never gotten blocked or clogged.

Kal

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itsnotrequired




Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 177
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i ran sanitizer through the chiller before using so i know it wasn't a blockage from a previous batch. i didn't start the wort pump right away when opening the bk valve. i just let the hoses, pump and chiller fill up naturally. i collect in a bucket the first little bit of fluid that exits the chiller, to flush out any leftover sanitizer. i noticed nothing flowing out of the chiller before turning the pump on. seemed strange but didn't think anything of it so i turned on the pump. that's when nothing was flowing, even with all the valves wide open. i thought there might be air in the system so i turned the pump on/off a couple times, squeezed the hoses, etc. nothing changed. i tried cleaning out with a pipe cleaner from the top of the chiller, since i didn't need to take any fittings off to do that. no liquid came out. due to the 90 degree tee at the chiller exist, i needed to take the whole works off to get at the guts of the chiller. sure enough, hops were packed in there as tight as can be.

weird. all i can think off is the mash hops. this was also the first time i used some whole hops, cascade grown in the backyard. maybe there was some super small particles in there that passed through the screen?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsnotrequired wrote:
weird. all i can think off is the mash hops. this was also the first time i used some whole hops, cascade grown in the backyard. maybe there was some super small particles in there that passed through the screen?

I don't see how it could be either. Anything small enough to pass through the tiny holes of the Hop Stopper would pass through without difficulty through the CFC (one big hole). For whatever reason the parts got "stuck" in your CFC somehow. I can't explain it.

Kal

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kkroeker




Joined: 08 Sep 2015
Posts: 19
Location: Oklahoma


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still a Nubie in all this although I have been brewing for about a Year. Probably 1-2 batches a month. The grain kits I have been using come with Muslen bags to put the hop pellets in. I use the longer of the bags and have it clipped to the side of the BK and add to the bag as the schedule states. Even do the same for any of the other additives through the process.

The only time I've had issue with my chiller being plugged or not moving wart was when I added stuff straight to the boil like lemon peal or such (that was a mess to even get through the ball valve, lol). Other than that I dont have anything as a filter. My local brew shop suggested using that bag in front of the the drain as a filter, but I found that to be more trouble than good. I also found throwing bags in tied caused more issue when draining the BK as they would get stuck in the ball valve as well. Before and after each brew session I pump hot water through the chiller until clear. Sometimes I reverse flow to back flush it as well. I haven't seen anything speaking against that method.

I do run a 15 gal BK (not blickmann) with a standard ball valve (not blickmann). I also have a blickmann boil coil in the BK so running any screen off the drain is a bit tough to make work.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kkroeker wrote:
I also found throwing bags in tied caused more issue when draining the BK as they would get stuck in the ball valve as well.

It could also scorch on the heating element if it was to get stuck in one spot, ruining the batch. Ok to do with a gas setup heated from below.

Kal

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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine has worked great, but I follow kals instructions. Flow control is the key. I built mine from 28x28mesh, so maybe it is a different size?

On my beers with 10-14 oz hops, I have use a combo of a large hop spider and the stopper. All hops go in the spider. Amazed at what the stopper still collects.
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mike0416




Joined: 03 Jan 2017
Posts: 62



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I know this is an older thread but I feel everyone's pain on this issue. I've been through only 2 brews with the EB, which has been really great aside from a few minor tweaks (read: operator error - lol) that Kal has helped me out with. However, I'm consistently frustrated with the hop stopper and the chilling process due to it. I appreciate Dennis' post, but I feel that even if I get this working correctly, the time and sensitivity it takes is way too touchy for me personally. I like futzing around with the parts of the brewery I want to futz with -- draining the BK into the CFC and into the fermentor is not one of them. Plus, I don't want the wort flow to come to a crawl when draining. Today my wort came out too cold due to this and I had to warm it up before I pitched, plus I lost about a gallon or wort all of the above due to losing suction.

Applying the "keep it simple stupid" philosophy, I'm thinking of going few different ways with this:

1. Use a hop spider like this and remove the hop stopper: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M9FBFS5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=916916d56e701844481c7dfb218f7b08 . This is definitely the cheapest and simple solution.
2. Try @zeppman 's solution above by just whirlpooling with my paddle, remove the hopstopper, and hope for the least amount of trub. See if I like how this turns out.
3. Or, just buy the Blichmann whirlpool kit (why does no one want to put another hole in their kettle? - we all already have the punch! It will probably take ten minutes to install) along with the hop blocker that goes on the original Blichmann dip tube for an extra layer of protection. See how that works out.

If anyone has any further suggestions that don't involve having to buy an inline filter to attach to my pump along with a bleeder valve and a tri-clamp (and I thought I was a brew nerd!) I'm all ears. Appreciate it!
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just whirlpool at flameout while I'm cooling. It makes a nice clump in the center. Some hop material goes into the fermentor but I normally just dump the trub a day or two after. Way easy approach. No need for any filter.
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