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Brewery build thread
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Normal. Large volumes of water don't tend to appear to boil. With wort it'll look completely different.

Kal

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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is kind of what I suspected. I would like to thank you and all of the other folks here and at Home Brew Talk for all of the help in answering my questions.
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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:20 am    Post subject: Brewery Build Thread Reply with quote

Thought that I would post a picture of the HERMS coil I put together today. Used 60 foot of 1/2" O.D. tubing. Coil measures 4 inches in height and 19 inches in diameter. The support legs are aluminum because I had it on hand. Will replace them with stainless later. The coil ended up at 4 inches because the coils tended to collapse on themselves. Have not figured out how to make them "stand" onto each other (if that is even necessary).


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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know that it matters too much if the coils are neatly stacked. It might reduce your heat transfer if the water in the HLT is not recirculating. If you want the coils neatly stacked, just make the inside portion of your legs bend up inside the coil for the full height of the coil or higher.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross is correct. You want the external water to flow across the coil for maximized heat transfer so normally 2 things are done to accomplish this:

(1) Ensure the coil is only touching itself in one plane so that external water can flow across it. It's hard to tell from your picture, but it looks like in some places the coil is surrounded on all sides by other coil.

(2) Circulate the external water in the direction opposite to the flow of the wort going through the coil. If you hook up like in my build instructions, the wort will flow from bottom to top while the external water flows from top to bottom.

Good luck!

Kal

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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

(2) Circulate the external water in the direction opposite to the flow of the wort going through the coil. If you hook up like in my build instructions, the wort will flow from bottom to top while the external water flows from top to bottom.


Hmm, I never considered this. I get the concept in a counterflow chiller where you want the coldest water cooling the cooler wort with a relatively small volume of water in the system at any given point. I always thought that the temperature differential between the wort and the hot liquor to be relatively minor and it was more of a way to maintain/slowly ramp the wort temp up. It would make a bigger difference if you're heating the MT with the HERMS coil. Thanks for the tip on maximizing the system.

Edit: I just realized that you are discussing the vertical flow of the water in the HLT and not the direction of whirlpool. I don't think whirlpool direction will matter too much will it? Like I said, I think the volume of water in the HLT and keeping it moving is more important than which direction the fluids are moving. I'm no fluid dynamics engineer though, so I could be wrong on that.

Thoughts?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross wrote:
Edit: I just realized that you are discussing the vertical flow of the water in the HLT and not the direction of whirlpool. I don't think whirlpool direction will matter too much will it?

No. In fact, I don't think that the direction of water to wort flow (up/down) that I mentioned previously plays a big role either, but since it's easy to do in opposite directions, that's what I do.

Quote:
Like I said, I think the volume of water in the HLT and keeping it moving is more important than which direction the fluids are moving.

Agreed 100%

Kal

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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:57 am    Post subject: Brewery Build Thread Reply with quote

I have run three tests on my panel and have checked the wiring during and after each test. I have not noticed any apparent problems until after the third test. When I checked the wiring after the test was over I noticed a black line on some of the neutral and ground wires (these did not show up during the test as I had the panel open and did not see them). I have not noticed any problems with how the panel functioned during test three and none of the breakers (either inside the control panel enclosure or the house panel) tripped. There was no "smell" or any visual indication of the wiring overheating (no apparent damage to the insulation on the wires). None of the terminals show any sign of overheating or shorting out and the hot side does not appear to show these black lines (at least on the red wires, black is kind of hard to tell). I "was" pretty confident that I had wired the panel correctly but now I am not so sure. I have attached a picture of one of the neutral wires. Any one have an idea what may be causing this? I do not plan on powering up the panel again until this is figured out. This looks like the wiring is overheating somehow, or am I just being paranoid?

One more thing, it seems like these black lines are running along the text that is printed on the wire.



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Yo_Pauly



Joined: 30 Nov 2014
Posts: 40
Location: New Richmond, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking back at some of your earliest image of the panel wiring it sure looks to me like many of the neutral wires exhibit this dark streak. Others not so much (did you source all from the same vendor?) Only you can make the judgement whether the wires have discolored due to heating/overheating (do you have any leftover wire that you could compare it to?) Concerning the green ground wires, there should be no current returning through them. That would indicate a ground fault condition and should cause the gfi breaker to trip.
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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for being more observant than me. I went back and looked at the left over neutral wire and it does have the dark stripe on it. The stripe does vary in shade along the length of the wire. Been one of those weeks (need to learn to get some sleep before posting). Makes me feel better about my wiring since I could not think of a reason that this would happen. Thanks again.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at your picture the black line on the wire is very straight and well defined. It is not caused by overheating. The lines were likely there to begin with.

Is something not working correctly? You mentioned doing tests but did not mention the outcome of these tests or if something wasn't working correctly.

Kal

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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a previous post it was noted that the black lines were visible in earlier photo's. Took the suggestion and I went back and checked some left over wire and the lines were there. Feel kind of foolish now but I just had not noticed the lines before. The panel has been working flawless and "testing" is kind of a loose term. My "test" was just running the panel through some simulated brew sessions using just water. Thanks.
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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Couple of new pictures Reply with quote

Have not posted in for awhile. Thought that I would post a couple of pictures of my control panel powered up and doing a water test on the HERMS coil and another one of my almost completed brewstand. Hope to someday quit building and start brewing.


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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject: Brewery build thread Reply with quote

Looking at first brew in a week or two. Question about boil off rate. I ran a water test. My question is if I count the evaporation loss between mash temp and boil (about 1/2 gallon in my kettle) or just the loss after boil starts. Thanks.
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jcav



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Central Florida


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually you sparge until you collect your full volume of liquid for your batch plus your boil off rate and loss to trub, hoses, and any other areas. For my system and keggles I have a boil off rate of 1 gallon per hour after I reach a full boil. I have trub losses and other very small volume losses in my system (chiller, hoses, etc.) so I imputed this in Beer Smith, which calculated all of this for me. So when I brew to make an 11 gallon batch to hit the fermenter, so I get two full 5 gallon kegs after fermentation, I start with 13.22 gallons of pre boil volume in my boil kettle. I boil off 1 gallon in an hour, so that leaves 12.22 gallons. I then chill and recirculate until I get down to the desired temp and then pump 11 gallons into the fermenter. There usually isn't very much at all left over in the kettle after hop additions soak some up, cooling shrinkage, etc. So that is what works for me and it works very well. If you just figure your boil off rate only you will be short at the end when fermentation is over, trust me. Hope this helps a little.

John

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to do these calculations manually and see how it all works, check out the BREW DAY STEP BY STEP here:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

It'll walk you through everything.

Kal

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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:31 am    Post subject: Brewery Build Thread Reply with quote

Finally ran my first brew through the system. It worked great without any hiccups. The brewers were a different story. I do want to thank Kal for this website and all of the work involved. I could not have built my brewery without it. Brewed the Electric Pale Ale and in the fermenter since Sunday. Picture is a few minutes into the mash cycle.


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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Brewery Build Thread Reply with quote

Nimbus3000 wrote:
Finally ran my first brew through the system. It worked great without any hiccups.

Excellent - glad to hear it!

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Nimbus3000



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 119
Location: Western Washington State


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Brewery Build Thread Reply with quote

After about a dozen batches done and a continual revision / modification to the brewery here is the final configuration. All liquid can be directed between kettles with ball valves. Sparging is done through the flow meter. Inline oxygenation is placed under the sight glass after the chiller. Yeast is held in the cone and added into the wort by switching the flow direction of the three way valve. The second picture is of my modified chest freezer to allow the use of a modified keg as fermenter. CO2 vents out through the tri clover fitting into the Buckner funnel and out of the airlock. A valve on the tri clover fitting can be closed to do pressurized fermentation using the pressure gauge and PORV.


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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10558
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! I'm not sure it makes sense, but that cabinet you hold the control panel in always reminds me of Daleks from Doctor Who. Exterminate! Wink

Kal

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