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Failure rates of SSRs

 
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pinbrew




Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kemptville, ON

Drinking: Amber Ale

Working on: Electric Hop Candy Jr., Toy Soldier Stout, Crispy Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:29 pm    Post subject: Failure rates of SSRs Reply with quote


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So, getting my setup to completion has been an interesting journey. I had a problem with one of my SSRs, which was passing voltage when no control voltage was applied. That's... somewhat less than ideal, so I ordered a 2-pack from Amazon, and both of them were defective as well (same problem, AC passed with no control). I went through my setup and re-verified every line, and then swapped the good SSR and it functioned properly.

I guess I have to get another SSR, but I was wondering if they were problematic by and large. I won't lie, I'm pretty frustrated at this point. The replacement SSRs I have are from Fotek, which have good reviews and bad reviews, much like any other brand.

Anyone have a recommendation for an SSR brand/source in Canada? So far I'm not so impressed with either Auber or Fotek.
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chastuck




Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 193
Location: Beckenham, Kent, UK

Drinking: Bitter

Working on: IPA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't say what the problem was with Auber, but personally I have found their customer service excellent. On the very RARE occasion when they have sent me a faulty part here in the UK they have replaced it with no quibble. I have tried various SSR's in the past, but for me the Auber's take some beating for reliability.
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pinbrew




Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kemptville, ON

Drinking: Amber Ale

Working on: Electric Hop Candy Jr., Toy Soldier Stout, Crispy Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing as the Foteks. Passing full voltage with no control applied. Basically I have 4 SSRs, and 1 works Very Happy I got the Auber's via Spike Innovations, and maybe I'll just return it. It's a $15 part, and I'm just impatient now because it's been one little thing after another with my build where I discover something is defective/out of tolerance/garbage. It's been a great learning experience, but a frustrating one, too. I also want to be clear, the cpanel kit from Spike Innovations is _awesome_, and I elected to source some SSR's I could get quickly, so that's my fault as well.

Good to know, and I'll see if I can source them, here. The Foteks seem to dominate, likely because they're inexpensive.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely contact us as we'll replace it for you if it's from us.

Kal

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pinbrew




Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kemptville, ON

Drinking: Amber Ale

Working on: Electric Hop Candy Jr., Toy Soldier Stout, Crispy Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey kal, thanks much, I will. I ordered a couple Crydoms, which are a little more expensive. Again, the kit is _amazing_ and I'm happy with my build, just this one has been a little strange. Related, the seller I got the Foteks from has pulled all their SSRs, so something's up.

I'll pop you guys a note separately; I was just wondering if I just have some bad luck, or if these are a component that tends to fail often or are a little skitchy. I've been amazed by the variation in sellers and prices.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only having 1 in 4 work is definitely not normal.

In all our years of selling these kits I don't think we've actually had to replace any SSRs for customers.

Kal

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pinbrew




Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kemptville, ON

Drinking: Amber Ale

Working on: Electric Hop Candy Jr., Toy Soldier Stout, Crispy Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's me. I can drop it off to you, as well, if you want. I did troubleshoot the whole shooting match, including making sure everything was wired properly, and flipping the SSRs to make sure the side I was seeing problems on wasn't to blame. For testing the SSRs I applied a current to the upstream leg of the AC side and measured current coming across, and for all three of the SSRs that weren't working as expected it was the same (~120V) as what was coming in, with no control being supplied/connected.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinbrew wrote:
Maybe it's me. I can drop it off to you, as well, if you want.

Spike Innovations handles all the shipping so I'd have no use for the SSR nor do I have stock myself. Thanks for the offer though.

Quote:
I did troubleshoot the whole shooting match, including making sure everything was wired properly, and flipping the SSRs to make sure the side I was seeing problems on wasn't to blame. For testing the SSRs I applied a current to the upstream leg of the AC side and measured current coming across, and for all three of the SSRs that weren't working as expected it was the same (~120V) as what was coming in, with no control being supplied/connected.

Be aware that given the way the power semiconductors usually work in SSRs, you'll often measure full voltage even when SSRs are off as there's a small leakage current. If you're basing the fact that an SSR works on not on what you measure with a meter, it can be misleading. Hook it up to a load and test (in real use).

Kal

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pinbrew




Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kemptville, ON

Drinking: Amber Ale

Working on: Electric Hop Candy Jr., Toy Soldier Stout, Crispy Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've learned something today, which should have been obvious now that I think it through. I had just wired everything up and wanted to make sure everything was ok, so powered it on to check the relays and the element light came on for one of the burners (with no elements plugged in). I hadn't realized that the voltage leakage could be 120v, which makes all kinds of sense when I think V, not A, and the current was just enough to power an LED.

I hooked up the pot with element, and of course everything works properly, and the element light no longer illuminates because the element soaks up the current and the element light won't illuminate.

Thank you so much, Kal. For people like me who don't quite do the math, the Testing HOWTO in the Control Panel section of the guide would be awesome. I see Step 6 covers this explicitly, and I will be spending some more time RTFM-ing.

I feel like an idiot, but a relieved idiot.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to hear everything's normal!

I added something explicit to the troubleshooting FAQ too to cover this:

Quote:
I'm measuring voltage at the output of the SSR even though the SSR is supposed to be off! Is it broken?
No. This is normal. All SSRs have a small amount of leakage current which causes a not insignificant voltage to be measured on the output at all times. Since very little current is allowed to flow however, the heating element will not heat up. This leakage current (inherent to all SSRs) is one of the reasons why our design includes the added safety of using mechanical relays to physically disconnect the power from the heating elements (controlled by the ELEMENT SELECT switch). The mechanical relays ensure that there is a complete physical disconnect between both HOT lines and the heating elements when the relay is off. This is important as we will often be working or cleaning one kettle while the other is operational.


Link: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25460

Kal

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