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step mashing
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inkedbrewer




Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:10 am    Post subject: step mashing Reply with quote


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does anyone do step mashes with this system

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I do them quite regularly. See the official site recipes for some examples.

If you mash out, you're doing a step too, so I would say that most people who use or built this setup always do at least one step.

Kal

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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, quite often, a Saison at 122,133,148,154,168

Silverspoons
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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^
How long do you stay at each step for your Saison?
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
^^^^^
How long do you stay at each step for your Saison?


I'll check when i get home but from memory most were about 10 to 15 minutes except the 148 which was around 30 minutes

silverspoons
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foomench




Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a 20 minute protein rest at 122 for Berliner Weisse.
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject: Step Mash Saisin Recipe Reply with quote

Here's a great Saison recipe using a long step mash.. I've made it several times and love it, especially on a hot August evening.

5.5 gal so you'll have to scale

Silverspoons



French/Belgium Saison

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.047
Efficiency: 84% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.019
ABV (standard): 5.88%
IBU (tinseth): 17.82
SRM (morey): 13.11

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - Belgian - Pilsner (60.9%)
2.25 lb - German - Vienna (19.6%)
2 lb - German - CaraMunich I (17.4%)
0.25 lb - German - CaraAroma (2.2%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 13.86
0.5 oz - Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 3.97

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 115 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 16 qt
2) Temperature, Temp: 131 F, Time: 30 min, Step Mash
3) Temperature, Temp: 143 F, Time: 45 min, Step Mash
4) Temperature, Temp: 161 F, Time: 15 min, Step Mash
5) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 5 min


OTHER INGREDIENTS:
7 g - Fresh Ginger Root, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
3 g - Black Pepper, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
7 g - Bitter Orange Peel, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
10 g - Fresh Orange Peel Zest, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil

YEAST:
White Labs - Belgian Saison I Yeast WLP565
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 70%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 68 - 75 F


Fermentation Schedule:
68º for 3days.. raise to 71º for 8 more days.. to secondary.. cool to 56º for 3 days then raise to 68º or room temp for bottling.
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Kevin59




Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a good recipe to try silverspoons, thanks. Regarding your step times are the values you've listed the amount of time at that temp after completing the temp increase? I'd guess yes.
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes after temp is reached
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Roadie




Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 127
Location: Charleston, SC


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silverspoons - 1 vial of yeast with no starter?
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadie wrote:
Silverspoons - 1 vial of yeast with no starter?


Yes

Silverspoons
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chastuck




Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 193
Location: Beckenham, Kent, UK

Drinking: Bitter

Working on: IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Step Mash Saisin Recipe Reply with quote

silverspoons wrote:
Here's a great Saison recipe using a long step mash.. I've made it several times and love it, especially on a hot August evening.

5.5 gal so you'll have to scale

Silverspoons



French/Belgium Saison

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.047
Efficiency: 84% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.019
ABV (standard): 5.88%
IBU (tinseth): 17.82
SRM (morey): 13.11

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - Belgian - Pilsner (60.9%)
2.25 lb - German - Vienna (19.6%)
2 lb - German - CaraMunich I (17.4%)
0.25 lb - German - CaraAroma (2.2%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 13.86
0.5 oz - Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 3.97

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 115 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 16 qt
2) Temperature, Temp: 131 F, Time: 30 min, Step Mash
3) Temperature, Temp: 143 F, Time: 45 min, Step Mash
4) Temperature, Temp: 161 F, Time: 15 min, Step Mash
5) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 5 min


OTHER INGREDIENTS:
7 g - Fresh Ginger Root, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
3 g - Black Pepper, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
7 g - Bitter Orange Peel, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
10 g - Fresh Orange Peel Zest, Time: 15 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil

YEAST:
White Labs - Belgian Saison I Yeast WLP565
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 70%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 68 - 75 F


Fermentation Schedule:
68º for 3days.. raise to 71º for 8 more days.. to secondary.. cool to 56º for 3 days then raise to 68º or room temp for bottling.


Great recipe. I'm about to brew my first Saison. Would you mind telling me what water profile you used please?
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silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I was out of town..
Used the water profile from the book about Farmhouse Ales and Saisons..

Ca-52
Mg-17
Na-35
Cl-20
SO4-107

Silverspoons
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pmaher




Joined: 15 Feb 2021
Posts: 6



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been experimenting with multi step mashing using a schedule like the following.

Protein Rest: 122F for 20 minutes
Beta Sacch Rest: 149F for 30 minutes
Alpha Sacch Rest: 158F for 30 minutes
Mashout: 170F for 10 minutes

Between steps it takes a good amount of time to raise the mash from one temperature to the next. Should I be including this time in my step time or should I start my timer once I reach the target temperature.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmaher wrote:
Between steps it takes a good amount of time to raise the mash from one temperature to the next. Should I be including this time in my step time or should I start my timer once I reach the target temperature.

In my case (for the recipes on this website) the step times are for when they're held at the specific temp and the recipes are documented that way. In-between time doesn't count.

For example, from my Belgian dark strong ale (quadrupel) recipe:

Quote:
Start the mash at 131F and hold for 10 mins (high end of the protein rest range).
Ramp up to 149F and hold for 90 mins (beta rest).
Ramp up to 155F and hold for 30 mins (alpha rest).
Raise to 168F mashout temperature and hold for 10 mins.


Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmaher wrote:
Between steps it takes a good amount of time to raise the mash from one temperature to the next. Should I be including this time in my step time or should I start my timer once I reach the target temperature.


I too have wondered about the time length of raising the mash temp from 1 temp to the next. Especially, after watching a show on TV about the Boston Beer Company 1st brewing test. They needed to hit the next mash temp within a certain amount of time. My EB takes much, much longer to get to the next temp. I haven't noticed anything bad with the brews, just always in my mind after seeing the TV show.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KB wrote:
They needed to hit the next mash temp within a certain amount of time.

Why?

KB wrote:
My EB takes much, much longer to get to the next temp.

For those who want to minimize ramp time even with smaller batches where two heating elements aren't required for boiling, I recommend our 50A control panel for 30+ gallons:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/control-panels/products/50a-electric-brewery-control-panel-for-30-gallons-pre-assembled

Put 2 x 5500W in the HLT instead of only 1 for almost twice the ramp speed. You can keep the boil with 1 heating element per usual.

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why? Something about the original recipe. They kept making a BIG deal about the step up time. Had to hit the next temp within a certain time or the equipment was no good.

"Put 2 x 5500W in the HLT instead of only 1 for almost twice the ramp speed. You can keep the boil with 1 heating element per usual." Can't do with my 30A EB.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KB wrote:
Why? Something about the original recipe. They kept making a BIG deal about the step up time. Had to hit the next temp within a certain time or the equipment was no good.

Probably more to do with trying to save time if you're paying someone to brew.

KB wrote:
Can't do with my 30A EB.

No. You need 50A.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Probably more to do with trying to save time if you're paying someone to brew.


I'm really unsure. They just really stressed about hitting the next temp within a certain amount of time.

In my experince, doing step mashes are a waste of time. My brew day is long enough without the additional time of a step mash. I'll make the beer as per the recipe the 1st time (step mash) and then make as a single temp. Every time, the single temp, at least to me and others, tastes better (and saves a LOT of time too!).
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