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Drix
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 17
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: Carbonation calcs with 25/75 beer gas vs CO2 |
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Any beer gas calculators out there similar to the beer tools pro calculator for CO2? How many volumes of beer gas is recommended for a Guinness type of experience?
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Drix
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 17
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I just glanced through the draught beer manual on www.draughtquality.org. (Excellent resource)
Going to re-phrase above question. Since nitrogen not easily absorbed by beer, what does it mean when they reference Brewers like Guinness injecting nitrogen in the brewing process?
For our electric brewery recipe on the dry Irish stout, what CO2 targets work for this style? Do you you do the original carbonation with the beer gas mixture or only push the beer with the mixture after original carbonation complete?
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Creepy
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 Posts: 127 Location: North Chicago Burbs
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Alright Drix I'll take a stab at it since no one has given you any love on this one yet. I don't have a nitro setup on my kegerator yet but have read about it a bit in hopes of making the plunge (currently serve stouts and porters on a stout faucet with the restrictor disc removed).
Anyway, there are a couple ways to skin the cat from my understanding. First you can carbonate as usual with CO2 only. Once carbed then disconnect, bleed the head space, and hook up with beer gas mixture at appropriate pressure setting. This seems to be a preferred method by many I've read about. The second method is to carb using beer gas at your appropriate pressure for desired volumes CO2 (use the standard charts to determine volumes). What is that pressure? Well it depends on your gas mixture. You're dealing with partial pressures in this and the CO2 is the only gas in the mixture that will go into solution. So whatever your CO2 percentage is (likely 25% or 30%) that is what you use. So, with beer gas connected and a 25% CO2 mixture at 40 psi you are effectively pushing 10 psi CO2.
CO2 psi = total psi x % CO2
or
Total psi = CO2 psi / % CO2
If your charts say you need 8 psi for your particular volumes CO2 and you have a 25% CO2 mixture...
Total psi = 8psi / .25 = 32 psi (set with beer gas)
I hope this helps and if anyone sees fault in my understanding please dime me out. Again, I'm still not actually implementing this myself. [/quote]
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Creepy
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 Posts: 127 Location: North Chicago Burbs
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Drix wrote: | Going to re-phrase above question. Since nitrogen not easily absorbed by beer, what does it mean when they reference Brewers like Guinness injecting nitrogen in the brewing process? |
As for your other question, nitrogen will not go into solution so it's addition in the gas mixture is purely to bump up the serving pressure. In order to get the creamy mouthfeel and tiny bubbled, tight, creamy head a stout faucet needs to be used. That is crucial is serving on beer gas. If served at 30-40 psi on a standard faucet you'll likely have a foam explosion. There is a small restrictor plate in the stout faucet that adds a great deal of resistance and must be overcome with higher serving pressure in order to maintain a smooth pour and flow. As the beer is pushed thru this plate the CO2 is forced out of solution leaving a relatively flat beer with a nice creamy head.
In short, if you want to go the nitro route, you must have a stout faucet, nitro regulator on your tank, and the most often recommended gas mixture I've seen is 30/70. Just my .02
Cheers!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:58 am Post subject: |
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FWIW I keep my beer in the keezer at about a degree or two below freezing so that pours are at about 38-40F. The regulator on my CO2/Nitro (70/30 blend) tank is at about 15 PSI.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Tungsten
Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Posts: 318 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Link Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:42 am Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | FWIW I keep my beer in the keezer at about a degree or two below freezing so that pours are at about 38-40F. The regulator on my CO2/Nitro (70/30 blend) tank is at about 15 PSI.
Kal |
Whoa... maybe this is commonplace, but I haven't heard this before so it's interesting! I'd really like to pick your brain on your draft setup sometime because I think I'm very far off on it (the temp of the keezer, plus the glycol recirc which I would assume keeps your tap temp way below 38).
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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At which temp will a keg of beer freeze? I assume the small amount of alcohol in beer drives the freezing point down well below where your keezer is set Kal? I may very well do this same thing as I'm sick and tired of dealing with condensation.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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huaco wrote: | At which temp will a keg of beer freeze? |
Not sure. Depends on how much alcohol is in the beer. There's probably online calculators available for this.
Quote: | I assume the small amount of alcohol in beer drives the freezing point down well below where your keezer is set Kal? |
Correct.
You don't have to have it much below freezing or even below freezing as the cooling coils are the coldest point and will always be colder than everything else in the keezer, so moisture condenses there first and freezes.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Drix
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 17
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Link Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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all repsponss make sense. Thanks. I did find one slight nuance throughout this process that might be worth noting for those that are following this thread.
2 types of common "beer gas" available:
a. 30% N2 / 70% CO2
b. 25% CO2 / 75% N2 - this is called G-mix or Guiness gas
Before I started my all grain, elec brew set up I was using an N2 set up to push off the shelf guiness kegs. I'm not exactly sure which N2 mix I even have. Probaly the latter...
After I figure that out, then the calcs you guys reference above should be pretty straight foward to maintain correct carbonation and provide enough pressure to push through stout faucet restrictor plates.
Thanks for the replies and additional tips on reducing condensation.
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