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Yeast Pitch Rate - Pliny the Younger

 
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dnierer



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Yeast Pitch Rate - Pliny the Younger Reply with quote


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When I ran this through brewers friend 52 grams of yeast gives me the following

OG: 1.088
Wort Volume: 12 Gallons
Target Pitch Rate: Pro Brewer 1.0
Yeast Type: Dry Packets
Dry Yeast Amount: 52 grams
Cell Density: 7 billion cells per gram

The results are

Cells available: 364 billion
Pitch Rate As-Is: 0.38 cells / mL / P
Target Pitch Rate Cells: 960 billion
Difference: -596 billion

Should I be selecting a different Target Pitch Rate than Pro Brewer 1.0?

Thanks,
Dru
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You raise an interesting point as I don't use their calculator for dry yeast as I find it wants an absolutely insane amount of yeast. In the case of this Pliny the Younger recipe which uses US-05 which the calculator says is rumoured to have a cell density of 6B cells/gram, at a Pro Brewer 1.0 pitch rate for 12 gallons of 1.088 wort you're looking at 160 grams! (more than 14 packs). I recommend 52 grams.

So my dry yeast recommendations in my recipes are simply from my own experience. In the case of this beer 52g in 12 gallons has always given me quick starts and and the expected attenuation. Some will even say that 52 grams is overkill!

I've update my yeast starter guide to mention that I only use the calculator for liquid yeast and that I recommend sticking to the recommended amount of grams when dry yeasts are called for. See the new 'warning' section in red after the intro : https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/making-a-yeast-starter

My recipes that use dry yeasts (I only use US-05 and W-34/70) will continue to give recommended amounts and you can't certainly make a starter starting with a single 11g pack, but you're on your own when it comes to figuring out what cell count to use as they're a bit all over the place. Wink If I take the 6B cells per gram for US-05, 52g in the above recipe ends up pitching 312B cells which is less than 1/3 of what the calculator and I recommend when using liquid yeasts.

Pitch rates are controversial, so do whatever works best for you and gives you the results you want. Part of me didn't want to publish that yeast starter guide at all and I toyed with the idea to simply post what the yeast strain is in my recipes as I was afraid there would be a ton of backlash. Wink Fortunately there wasn't.

Cheers!

Kal

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dnierer



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed response, I thought something seemed a little off with the dry yeast calculations. I think I'll pose the same question to the folks at BrewersFriend, I'll let you know what their response is.
Dru
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck, though I wouldn't hold my breath for a response. The original content is all still there of course, but BrewersFriend was bought out some years ago by CulturedMedia.com (now Groupbuilder.com) who swallow up websites and forums (for ad revenue). They also now own HomeBrewTalk.com, EZWaterCalculator.com, and many others. So the original authors behind most of the content and that Yeast Calcultor tool are no longer around from what I understand.

Cheers!

Kal

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dnierer



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Slatington, PA

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy

Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the response I received from Brewers Friend Forum

"The issue is that the 6B/gram is the minimum viable cell density, which is going to be at the end of it's shelf life. On average most satchets of dry yeast contain about 200B cells, a satchet is 11.5g. That's 17.4 B / gram. You'll want~2-3 satchets"
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dnierer wrote:
Here is the response I received from Brewers Friend Forum

"The issue is that the 6B/gram is the minimum viable cell density, which is going to be at the end of it's shelf life. On average most satchets of dry yeast contain about 200B cells, a satchet is 11.5g. That's 17.4 B / gram. You'll want~2-3 satchets"


Odd as this information is nowhere in the calculator. In fact, the age correction part of the calculator goes away when you choose "Dry yeast". No mention of shelf life.

They only state "From the manufacturers: Fermentis: > 6B cells/gram for US-05 and S-04."

When they recommend 2-3 satchets of US-05 did they understand it's 12 gallons of 1.088 of wort? 2-3 sounds more like 5.5-6 gallons of 1.088.

But at the end of the day, use however much works for you. Cheers!

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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