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Russian Imperial Stout (Bourbon barrel aged)
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Russian Imperial Stout (Bourbon barrel aged) Reply with quote


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Recipe is here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/russian-imperial-stout-bourbon-barrel-aged

Questions? Ask below. Cheers!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:26 pm; edited 41 times in total
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rafinus



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal, thats great.

Could you provide a beer smith file?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot as I do not use beersmith.

Everyone's efficiency is different so you'll have to adjust for your specific setup as well. Don't forget to adjust hop amounts too to hit the IBUs stated as your AA% will also be different (mostly for the 90 min addition - I wouldn't bother adjusting the others).

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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huhwha



Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 71



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great! I just finished making my first RIS. Hydrometer sample was great. Most of it is aging in a bourbon barrel now. I'll check it in two months.
Your point about drinkability is well made. This is one I think you can enjoy relatively soon and also cellar some over the years. I'll bet it's incredible after three years!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! Aging in old barrels be interesting - something to try for next time (or I could just rack an uncarb'ed keg of beer right in there and leave it for a while...)

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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matto



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Sydney, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal, this one looks nice. Quick question about the 2hr boil. What is the rationale for that? Is it to help get the gravity up where you want it? Or does it have to do with the grain bill -- somewhat like the 90min boil when using pilsner malt?

thanks for info
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matto wrote:
Hi Kal, this one looks nice. Quick question about the 2hr boil. What is the rationale for that? Is it to help get the gravity up where you want it? Or does it have to do with the grain bill -- somewhat like the 90min boil when using pilsner malt?

Correct with helping get the gravity up where we want it: There's so much grain and strike water and therefore so little sparge water that you leave a lot of sugars behind when sparging high gravity beers. This is true for any brewing setup. Boiling longer forces us to collect a lot more wort which means we need to sparge longer which means we extract more sugars from the grain. Some people are known to do 4+ hour boils for a RIS or a barley wine (both very high gravity beers, often over 10% ABV).

If you do a 60 min boil then your efficiency will be lower as you're going to use less sparge water and leave some sugars behind, which means you'd need more grain (and strike water) and again conversely less sparge water.

Longer boils also help build up the malty caramel flavors in the beer (helps bring out the dark fruit, rich caramel and toffee flavors that you get out of some malts). This is what "everyone says" but I really have my doubts about how much of a difference longer boils make to the flavour. One day I'd like to put that to the test to see....

Nothing to do with removing SMM (the precursor to DMS) like is usually done when using large amounts of pilsner malt in a beer. (I always boil beers that have lots of pilsner malt vigorously for 90+ minutes).

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 710
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Longer boils also help build up the malty caramel flavors in the beer (helps bring out the dark fruit, rich caramel and toffee flavors that you get out of some malts). This is what "everyone says" but I really have my doubts about how much of a difference longer boils make to the flavour. One day I'd like to put that to the test to see....

I think that is also dependent on the boil kettle and heat source.

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Kevin59



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 1049
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great Kal - it's now on my short term "to brew" list...

Just curious if you could offer a taste comparison to the Old Rasputin? I know that one's not aged for very long before it hits distribution. It's often available at my favorite beer bar here in Fort Collins, and in fact they had it on nitro last week for the first time.

Thanks!

Kevin
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

foomench wrote:
kal wrote:
Longer boils also help build up the malty caramel flavors in the beer (helps bring out the dark fruit, rich caramel and toffee flavors that you get out of some malts). This is what "everyone says" but I really have my doubts about how much of a difference longer boils make to the flavour. One day I'd like to put that to the test to see....

I think that is also dependent on the boil kettle and heat source.

Yup - could be!

Kevin59 wrote:
Just curious if you could offer a taste comparison to the Old Rasputin?

I'm afraid I've never tried it! (or the Stone one I show as well). They're simply known popular RIS beers. Neither is available where I live (Ottawa Canada) unfortunately. Now if someone wants to send me a bottle or two I'll be sure to write a full report. Wink

Part of the reasons I got into all-grain brewing was to be able to make what I wanted as the options here are extremely limited.

Kal

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TheGecko



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 52



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Given the high amount of grain used and longer boil time, with 20 gallon kettles you will need to fill the HLT and MLT separately with water).


Hi Kal - Very excited to brew the RIS this Saturday! Just had a questions about the process considering the high gravity/volume of grain:

1. Assume I need 12 gallons of strike water. I should add 12 gallons of water the MLT, and also add sparge water to the HLT, and get the temp up to 150 in both tanks before doughing in, right?

2. Did you/should I consider raising strike temp a bit higher than 150 considering the high amount of grain? In other words, did you see heat transfer reduced appreciably from this batch versus a lower gravity batch? Did it take substantially longer to get the mash to return to target temp?

Will report back on this one... looks like a great recipe!

Cheers,
Drew

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGecko wrote:
(Given the high amount of grain used and longer boil time, with 20 gallon kettles you will need to fill the HLT and MLT separately with water).


Hi Kal - Very excited to brew the RIS this Saturday! Just had a questions about the process considering the high gravity/volume of grain:

1. Assume I need 12 gallons of strike water. I should add 12 gallons of water the MLT, and also add sparge water to the HLT, and get the temp up to 150 in both tanks before doughing in, right?

Correct. Strike water goes in the MLT, then put enough sparge water in the HLT for what you need (with maybe a gallon or two extra just in case) or enough to at least cover the HERMS coil - whichever of the two is more.

The recirc both the HLT and the MLT water per our BREW DAY STEP BY STEP instructions while the HLT heats up. The MLT will heat up at the same time as heat transfers from the HLT to the MLT.

Quote:
2. Did you/should I consider raising strike temp a bit higher than 150 considering the high amount of grain? In other words, did you see heat transfer reduced appreciably from this batch versus a lower gravity batch? Did it take substantially longer to get the mash to return to target temp?

It does take longer to heat given the large amount of grain but I don't usually bother heating the strike/sparge water higher as I haven't found that the results of holding the grain at a lower temp for a (reasonably) short period of time has produced a too-fermentable wort for me. 150F is pretty low and given that it's a very high gravity beer, we want to mash somewhat low. That's the caveat of high gravity beers: They're usually mashed much lower anyway, and the lower the mash temp the longer it takes for the starches to convert to sugar too.

If I was making something that was to be mashed much higher (156F? 158F?) then maybe I'd try setting the HLT ~5-8 degrees higher to split the difference and get a faster ramp up to mash temp. Not sure what sort of beer that would be - maybe some sort of very lower gravity beer where you want some more body to it to avoid it finishing off too dry.

Quote:
Will report back on this one... looks like a great recipe!


Let us know how it works out!

Kal

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TheGecko



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 52



PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brewed the RIS on Saturday. It was a long brew day with the 90 minute mash and 2 hour boil. Also takes quite a bit of time to get all that strike/sparge water up to temp, but that's not a big deal. I actually heated the strike water to 160 and mashed in there. As I recirculated, mash temp started at 148 and didn't take long to bring temp to 150. I then added a couple quarts of room temp water to the HLT after mashing in to stable HLT temp at 150.

This was by far the biggest grain bill I've used and I was a little concerned about a potential stuck mash using almost 40 lb grain and mashing at a thick ratio of 1.25 qt/lb. The Blichmann false bottom, however, is a champ and was up to the task. Great circulation, very good conversion. Preboil conversion efficiency was 95%, which I anticipated coming in lower. Very pleased.

Draining kettle was a little challenging. First carboy was simple. Moving to second, the wort stopped flowing with 3 gallons of wort left... I'm not happy with the hop stopper, and will likely be investing in a spider. I was running the wort into carboy at a snail pace, and have read up on tips, but no dice. Ended up dumping remaining 3 gallons of wort into a sanitized bucket and placed in chest freezer until it got to 66 F, then added to carboy and pitched.

12 gallons of 1.096 RIS fermenting away @ 66 now. Color/aroma of wort is great, and was very thick just like you'd expect from a RIS.

Can't wait to sample and report back in a couple months. Cheers!

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Drew
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Kevin59



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 1049
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGecko wrote:
I'm not happy with the hop stopper, and will likely be investing in a spider.


Buy a hop spider for sure, you'll be happy you did!!! (Shameless plug for Zach & Stainless Brewing - http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spider-with-seam-welds_p_158.html)

Congrats on the brew - hope it tastes excellent!

Cheers!
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mtpratt



Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal

When you do a longer boil for a higher gravity beer, do you still need to adjust your mash efficiency to compensate for the lower efficiency?

Thanks and love the website
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10128
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtpratt wrote:
When you do a longer boil for a higher gravity beer, do you still need to adjust your mash efficiency to compensate for the lower efficiency?

In theory you could boil long enough that you wouldn't have to, but here with a 2 hour boil you do. That is why the efficiency in the recipe is listed as 88% (even though it's a 120 min boil) while most others are 95%. If we didn't boil 2 hours, the efficiency would be lower than 88%.

Kal

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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jbrace1



Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 42
Location: Minnetonka

Drinking: Saison de Sol, Summer Noon, Labor Day Pale Ale, Cold Press Coffee


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brewed the RIS last Tuesday. I only have a 15 gallon MT so I had to do an even thicker mash (1.1 qts/lb) but everything worked out great. I hit 1.097 after the 2 hour boil. Gravity was down to 1.040 yesterday and tastes wonderful!
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TheGecko



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 52



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGecko wrote:
Brewed the RIS on Saturday. It was a long brew day with the 90 minute mash and 2 hour boil. Also takes quite a bit of time to get all that strike/sparge water up to temp, but that's not a big deal. I actually heated the strike water to 160 and mashed in there. As I recirculated, mash temp started at 148 and didn't take long to bring temp to 150. I then added a couple quarts of room temp water to the HLT after mashing in to stable HLT temp at 150.

This was by far the biggest grain bill I've used and I was a little concerned about a potential stuck mash using almost 40 lb grain and mashing at a thick ratio of 1.25 qt/lb. The Blichmann false bottom, however, is a champ and was up to the task. Great circulation, very good conversion. Preboil conversion efficiency was 95%, which I anticipated coming in lower. Very pleased.

Draining kettle was a little challenging. First carboy was simple. Moving to second, the wort stopped flowing with 3 gallons of wort left... I'm not happy with the hop stopper, and will likely be investing in a spider. I was running the wort into carboy at a snail pace, and have read up on tips, but no dice. Ended up dumping remaining 3 gallons of wort into a sanitized bucket and placed in chest freezer until it got to 66 F, then added to carboy and pitched.

12 gallons of 1.096 RIS fermenting away @ 66 now. Color/aroma of wort is great, and was very thick just like you'd expect from a RIS.

Can't wait to sample and report back in a couple months. Cheers!


Hey guys - Thought I would come back and give you my update:

So final gravity on my RIS was 1.023, coming in at 9.3% ABV. The gravity sample tasted simply outstanding. I cannot believe how much complexity there is, especially given it's just under 3 weeks old. Totally agree with Kal that this RIS will be great in much less time than I am accustomed to aging stouts... but I am also excited to see how it changes over the years. 5 gallons going on my nitro tap, and 5 gallons dedicated to bombers and shoved away in the cellar for at least a year. This is an amazing beer, Kal! Well done, sir.

Mug

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Browningbuck



Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 26



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you always see the good posts and successes, but it is seldom people are brave enough to post the not so good results. however lessons learned and posts for posterity help the community and i wish i saw more of them. that being said our RIS this weekend went great up until sparging. we had friends over and we were'nt paying attention to the speed at which we were collecting off the mash tun and in only 20-30 min we had our preboil volume.... as most would guess our specific grav was much lower than what it should have been. with the upset in mind and thinking about the mess up, we started the boil, compounding the issue at hand the hops containers with our marked drop in times were reused from the last batch (which was a total 90 min boil compared to this 120) so the 90 min container stated "90 min start of boil". With our thoughts still on the specific gravity and the amount of sugars that had been wasted after fooping and start of boil i dumped in the "start of boil hops" which obviously went in 30 min too early. the end result of the day was an original grav of 1.067 and a stout that might be a bit more bitter than smooth.

the reason im wanting to post this is really for the greater good and a reminder to STAY FOCUSED. so my lessons learned are: keep distractions at bay (brew day is BREW DAY not social hour, at least for me), Dont reuse labels an extra 10 secs to relabel the hops is worth the time, and finally a pun... DONT RUSSIAN IT!


anyway well see what happens after ferm and some light ageing. We wont be hanging on to this one for a year like we anticipated but we will drink the hell out of it no matter what Smile
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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 710
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Browningbuck wrote:
we had friends over and we were'nt paying attention to the speed at which we were collecting off the mash tun and in only 20-30 min we had our preboil volume.... as most would guess our specific grav was much lower than what it should have been.

Did you think about running that through the grain bed again?

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