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Stone 'Enjoy By' Double IPA
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Stone 'Enjoy By' Double IPA Reply with quote


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Recipe is here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/stone-enjoy-by-double-ipa

Questions? Ask below. Cheers!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:40 pm; edited 31 times in total
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Roadie



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Charleston, SC


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I brewed this a couple weeks ago and it's almost carb'd up. My youngest son likes the older Enjoy By better than the current 4/20/14 one and it appears that's the one your recipe is for. The current version is much more dank. Should be drinking this soon. How did your batch turn out?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine turned out excellent! I find Mitch's tasting notes describes it well - lots of stone/tropical fruits, with some dankness (which I enjoy in an IPA).

Kal

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Roadie



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Charleston, SC


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal are you whirlpooling your 0 minute hop additions at "flameout"? If so what temp and how long do you maintain the whirlpool?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not whirlpooling. Per the recipe, I put the "Lid on at flameout, start chilling immediately". Takes me about ~20 mins to chill through the CFC. I suppose you could consider this a ~20 min whirlpool for some of the wort. Result is an explosion of fruit with some dankness.

Feel free to experiment however! Every setup is different. Process is often as important as the recipe and I can only say what I do on my setup. Your setup may be different and give different results.

Cheers,

Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

What do you think about creating a more 'sessionable' version of this recipe? I absolutely love EB IPA, but it's awfully heavy on the alcohol. I'd like to create a version with an OG of about 1.050 or less. Do you think if I just scaled the hops down it would come out okay?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drcraig wrote:
What do you think about creating a more 'sessionable' version of this recipe? I absolutely love EB IPA, but it's awfully heavy on the alcohol. I'd like to create a version with an OG of about 1.050 or less. Do you think if I just scaled the hops down it would come out okay?

Sure! If you enjoy the hop flavour/aroma there's no reason why you can't do that. I've done this a few times with my recipes. I'm actually meaning to brew a 4.0 to 4.5 % ABV version of my Electric Pale Ale like this (it's normally around 6% ABV).

For this beer, scale down the grain to hit 1.050 like you said, then scale back the hops but keep the mix the same and you'd have a nice Pale Ale I think.

I'd probably go with 1/3 to 1/4 the amount of hops. So for this 12 gallon batch above, maybe 1 oz in the mash, 1 hop shot at 90 min, 0.5 oz for each of the 15 min hops, 1 oz for each of the 0 min, then 1 oz for each dry hop. Should come out to about ~40 IBU. I find you can't really go too heavy with late addition hops. If you brew something like this please let us know how it turns out!


Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

The next evolution in my brewing will come from optimizing my water profiles. I don't know what my starting profile is, but I know we're soft and alkaline. I have a crude ppm meter, which indicates my tap water is 36 ppm. I have an RO system that will get that down to 6 ppm. For all practical purposes, is that basically a clean slate from which I can assume the ions are zero?

Second question- I've checked out EZ-Calc, and it's not as easy as I'd like. Is there a calculator that will allow me to input my starting profile, goal profile, and then it will out put how much of each additive I need in grams? With EZ-Calc it looks like you need to do a lot of fiddling with the additives to get the right amount of each ion.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drcraig wrote:
The next evolution in my brewing will come from optimizing my water profiles. I don't know what my starting profile is, but I know we're soft and alkaline. I have a crude ppm meter, which indicates my tap water is 36 ppm.

If you're on city water your city should be able to provide you those numbers. If on well, Ward Labs has a test you can pay for for cheap to have your water tested.

Quote:
I have an RO system that will get that down to 6 ppm. For all practical purposes, is that basically a clean slate from which I can assume the ions are zero?

No sure as I'm not sure what having "6 ppm" water really means. Does that mean combined solids (TDS) of only 6 ppm? If yes, then that's pretty close to RO.

Quote:
Second question- I've checked out EZ-Calc, and it's not as easy as I'd like. Is there a calculator that will allow me to input my starting profile, goal profile, and then it will out put how much of each additive I need in grams? With EZ-Calc it looks like you need to do a lot of fiddling with the additives to get the right amount of each ion.

EZ's about the simplest thing I've found that gets it right. I remember playing with some others a long time ago but they often did some pretty messed up auto-calculating. I find the fiddling to be minimal once you've tried it once.

Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal,

When you say cut the hops to 1/3 or 1/4, do you mean scale the whole thing down, and then cut it to 1/3 or 1/4? (meaning cut the hops disproportionately lower)

Or do you mean something else?

My plan is to scale the recipe to 7 gallons, then scale the grain to a gravity to 1.050. Beersmith also scales the hops down proportionately. From what you wrote it sounds like I should multiply each hop addition by 0.25 or 0.333. Is that correct?

I assume based on experience you believe that even with a proportionate scale down, the hops will simply be overwhelming at the lower gravity.

Craig

kal wrote:
drcraig wrote:
What do you think about creating a more 'sessionable' version of this recipe? I absolutely love EB IPA, but it's awfully heavy on the alcohol. I'd like to create a version with an OG of about 1.050 or less. Do you think if I just scaled the hops down it would come out okay?

Sure! If you enjoy the hop flavour/aroma there's no reason why you can't do that. I've done this a few times with my recipes. I'm actually meaning to brew a 4.0 to 4.5 % ABV version of my Electric Pale Ale like this (it's normally around 6% ABV).

For this beer, scale down the grain to hit 1.050 like you said, then scale back the hops but keep the mix the same and you'd have a nice Pale Ale I think.

I'd probably go with 1/3 to 1/4 the amount of hops. So for this 12 gallon batch above, maybe 1 oz in the mash, 1 hop shot at 90 min, 0.5 oz for each of the 15 min hops, 1 oz for each of the 0 min, then 1 oz for each dry hop. Should come out to about ~40 IBU. I find you can't really go too heavy with late addition hops. If you brew something like this please let us know how it turns out!


Kal
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drcraig wrote:
When you say cut the hops to 1/3 or 1/4, do you mean scale the whole thing down, and then cut it to 1/3 or 1/4? (meaning cut the hops disproportionately lower) Or do you mean something else?

Use the hop amounts I provided above as a starting point. They're about 1/4 to 1/3 of the original amounts. Here they are again:

kal wrote:
So for this 12 gallon batch above, maybe 1 oz in the mash, 1 hop shot at 90 min, 0.5 oz for each of the 15 min hops, 1 oz for each of the 0 min, then 1 oz for each dry hop. Should come out to about ~40 IBU. I find you can't really go too heavy with late addition hops.


YMMV. This was just a quick 2 min guess at what seems to make sense. Feel free to adjust based on what you like.

Quote:
I assume based on experience you believe that even with a proportionate scale down, the hops will simply be overwhelming at the lower gravity.

Sort of. It's about trying to keep the BU:GU (bittering units to gravity units) about the same, though you can't go absolutely nuts with a Pale Ale. If you want you could probably keep the 0 and dry hop at 1/2 the original amounts if you really want a whackload of hop flavour. You could also completely drop the 90 min hop and only use the mash/15/0/dry ones and do about 1/2 the original amounts. That would be an interesting beer.

Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

I have another question about water profiles. Is the stated profile in the recipe the goal for the final batch, or the starting strike/sparge water? I would assume it's the goal for the final batch, adjusting for boil off.

Craig
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the Mash + Sparge water profile as done in EZWaterCalculator. I see what you're saying (never thought about salts getting more concentrated because of boil off), but there's nothing in EZWater about boil off rates nor in all my reading or forum discussions have I ever seen anyone adjusting salts for boil off. There's something I'm not correctly wrapping my head around at the moment... maybe the salts boil off as well so the ppm of each salt stays the same?

Kal

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jbrace1



Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 42
Location: Minnetonka

Drinking: Saison de Sol, Summer Noon, Labor Day Pale Ale, Cold Press Coffee


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salts won't boil off and will become more concentrated by the end of the boil. The change in salt concentration is inversely proportional to the change in volume [volume goes down, salt concentration goes up and vice versa].

The ratio of salt concentration at the start of the boil (i.e. 110 ppm Ca) to the salt concentration at the end of the boil (x ppm Ca) will be INVERSELY proportional to the ratios of the pre-boil volume (14.9 gal) to the post boil volume (12 gal). Therefore, in the calculation below, PRE-boil salt concentration is on the top on the left side of the equation but POST-boil volume is on top on the right side of the equation.

Pre-boil concentration (ppm)/post-boil concentration(ppm) = post-boil volume(gal)/pre-boil volume(gal)

110 ppm Ca/x = 12.0 gal/14.9 gal

x=136.6 ppm Ca post boil
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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

So I finished my 5.2% ABV version of EB a few days ago. Two weeks grain to glass.

A few mistakes were made.... but in the end it came out good.

Mistake #1) Overshot my initial mash temp, and I'm not sure how. I started with 164F strike water and after mixing with the grain it settled down in the high 150's. I probably should have allowed 10 minutes for the temp to equilibrate, but I reacted and added cool water to bring the temp down, undershooting of course. Then I spent the next 40 minutes trying to get the temp back to 149 and steady. I tried something new (bad idea..) and shut down the recirculation hoping just maintaining the grain bed at 150F would do the job. It may have, but the resulting wort was very light on sugar. My efficiency is usually 95% with this setup, but on this batch I was no better than 65%. So I had to supplement a few pounds of DME. i got the gravity back where I wanted, just in time for mistake #2.

Mistake #2) First time using Kal's Hopstopper, and of course I didn't read the directions. What did I do just after adding the 15 min hop addition?? Survey says.. Recirculate! Which then promptly clogged the hop stopper and I struggled just to get the wort out. I lost a ton of hop oil extraction in the process... necessitating...

A hop tea!

I fermented with US-05, and this was pretty much at FG within 5 days. At day 10, I mixed two ounces of the dry hops with 1 liter of boiling water, and let that infuse for 60 minutes while cooling. I added the entire contents of the french press to the brew, and let that sit for four more days.

Next I kegged and carbonated.

The results?

Pretty good under the circumstances!

It's very heavy on tropical hop aromas when you stick your nose in the glass, so I'm very happy about that.
The taste is very rich with dank grassy hops, but a bit light on the citrus. It's very dry (FG 1.009), I think I would enjoy it more just a tad sweeter. Perhaps a Witbread yeast would have compensated a bit. Yeast flavor is very neutral, as you would expect. There's a little astringent bitterness that I attribute to the water profile. Not enough to be annoying, but more than I usually want. At 5.2% ABV is is very drinkable, which is nice.

I'll have to give this another go, perhaps when I upgrade my control panel and put a heating element in my HLT.

Now, on to London Pride! It's mashing now.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the results!

drcraig wrote:
It's very dry (FG 1.009), I think I would enjoy it more just a tad sweeter. Perhaps a Witbread yeast would have compensated a bit.


I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but one of the reasons we mash really high gravity beers at a low temp is to make sure the beer's not overly sweet once it's done fermenting. Yeast attenuates to a %, so the higher the starting gravity (SG), the higher the final gravity (FG). Conversely, if the SG is much lower as in your case, the FG will also be much lower.

To end up at the same FG, lower gravity beers have to be mashed at higher temps or you need to use a higher % of grain that will not ferment out (like crystal), or both. Something like 152-154F would probably work well here with US-05 if making a 5% ABV version of this beer. Experimentation is required of course.

Kal

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thecajunstyle



Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

First off, I absolutely love this beer--in fact, I've followed this exact recipe 4 times now. Out here on the east coast it's really hard to find Enjoy By IPA--and when I can find it, I'm limited to 2 bottles at a time Sad

Anyways, I'm a noob when it comes to brewing. Hoping you can answer a question that I has perplexed me for a little while about this particular recipe:

All in all, there's 26.6 lbs of grain + 1 lb dextrose

You indicate that the Original Gravity: 1.081 (1.075 - 1.090) and Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (1.010 - 1.020)

Each time I've followed this recipe, I measured 1.061 - 1.062 (OG) and 1.010 - 1.011 (FG) I'm struggling to understand why I'm not hitting the OG that you indicated in the recipe.

As I said, I'm pretty new...I am 99% sure that I have my water amount spot on (per the 1.25 lb/qt mash thickness)-- I've even had a buddy (who's been brewing for quite a few years double check my work).

Anyways, when I look at similar high OG recipes, it seems there there is significantly more grain and dextrose being added, just I'm just wondering if this is a typo, or if I need to take a closer look at where i'm losing ...

Thanks for your help!
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kal
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Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecajunstyle wrote:
You indicate that the Original Gravity: 1.081 (1.075 - 1.090) and Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (1.010 - 1.020)

Each time I've followed this recipe, I measured 1.061 - 1.062 (OG) and 1.010 - 1.011 (FG) I'm struggling to understand why I'm not hitting the OG that you indicated in the recipe.


The 1.081 original gravity is based on 93% mash efficiency as listed in the recipe. If you're not getting 93% on your setup, you won't get the same OG and you need to compensate with more grain. Your brewing software let you know what your mash efficiency is based on what OG you get for a certain volume of grain. You have to brew at least once to know what your mash efficiency is.

See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/FAQ#What_sort_of_efficiency_do_you_achieve_with_your_setup_

You may want to give my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP a read too as it mentions efficiency a few times: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

Things like sparge time have a big effect on it too.

Mash efficiency is also highly affected by your mash tun/false bottom geometry. Read here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/mash-lauter-tun?page=3

It has nothing to do with the water/grain ratio. That will slightly affect you FG as a more watery mash will be more fermentable.

If you're looking to maximize your mash efficiency, I'd suggest starting reading the above links and then starting a new thread if you have questions.

Good luck!

Kal

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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
It [mash efficiency] has nothing to do with the water/grain ratio. That will slightly affect you FG as a more watery mash will be more fermentable.

In the grand scheme of things, I would say it falls way down on the list of things that affect efficiency, but that it does have some contribution. The exact contribution is subject to some debate, and problems arise with anecdotal comparisons. Maybe that thicker mash kept more enzymes in contact with more starches, or did it contribute to more doughballs? Anyway, here's one study:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140901115017/http://braukaiser.com/documents/Effects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency.pdf
(braukraiser.com is offline at the moment, thus the Wayback Machine link).
Quote:
The results for mash thickness were somewhat surprising. Contrary to common believe [sic] no attenuation difference was seen between a thick mash (2.57 l/kg or 1.21 qt/lb) and a thin mash (5 l/kg or 2.37 qt/lb). Home brewing literature suggests that thin mashes lead to more fermentable worts, but technical brewing literature suggests that the mash concentration doesn't have much effect in well modified malts [Narziss, 2005]. Briggs cites data that doesn't show a change in fermentability when the mash thickness is changed [Briggs, 2004]. This was confirmed by these experiments where all the data points were on the same curve that had already been established in the temperature experiment.

Note that the experiments for the 2.57 l/kg mash were run twice because the initial experiment resulted in a small mash volume that lost 5 degree Celsius over the duration of the mash. To keep the temperature drop between the experiments the same the mash volume was increased and the result was a 2 degree Celsius temperature drop which matched the temperature drop for the 5 l/kg mash. But in the end that didn't make a difference.

A significant difference was however found in the efficiency. The brewhouse efficiency of the thick mashes remained almost constant between 58 and 60% over the temperature range of the experiments, but the brewhouse efficiency for the thinner mash showed a strong dependency on the temperature and was always better than the efficiency of the thick mash. That leads to the conclusion that thinner mashes perform better and allow for better extraction of the grain. Briggs also reports that thinner mashes can convert more starch but that most of the conversion potential is reached at a water to grist ratio of 2.5 l/kg [Briggs, 2004]

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kal
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Posts: 10058
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Definitely not something I'd worry about. I've tried making the same lighter beer the same way but only changing the mash thickness and it didn't make any difference from what I can tell.

Kal

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