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Dry Irish Stout
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Master




Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 171
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic

Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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So tapped the Nitro Stout last night. It's been on 75/25 Beer Gas Mix at 35psi for a month.

DEAD FLAT. Zero head. Zero Cascade. Fridge temp 38F

Pours at expected speed through a Stout Faucet. Tastes good, but DEAD FLAT.

Any ideas?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd. Either you're not actually at 35PSI, or there's no CO2 in there, or both.

Kal

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Master




Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 171
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic

Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. The bottle came with a cert tag with traceability on the batch. My spunding valve agrees within 2%.

Only way for me to know if the beer gas is proper is to run it through a mass spec.

I guess I could run it over some Lithium hydroxide and see if it makes O2, but that's another problem.

Anyone know of a non mass spec way of testing for CO2 in a mix? Straight Nitro would act like this. I had similar effects when I pushed with Argon as a test for pushing a long run uphill.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master wrote:
Yeah. The bottle came with a cert tag with traceability on the batch.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You mean the beer / gas blend bottle came with a cert tag? That's very odd as there's no need for this sort of accuracy on beer gas blends or straight CO2 or Nitro bottles. Was this a NIST traceable cert tag? And batch of what exactly? CO2 is CO2, nitrogen is nitrogen. Where you using some sort of special medical lab certified bottle for brewing where they guarantee there are no other impurities in the cylinder? (That isn't required for serving beer on tap).

Quote:
Anyone know of a non mass spec way of testing for CO2 in a mix? Straight Nitro would act like this. I had similar effects when I pushed with Argon as a test for pushing a long run uphill.

It sounds like you're not using a beer gas blend from somewhere that normally serves bars? This blending is not rocket science nor does it require much accuracy (there's a lot of leeway). When I take mine in it's to a place that does most of their business refilling fire extinguishers. They ask what blend ratio I want and do it with a scale (so much weight CO2, so much nitro). Doesn't have to be perfect, still works. They fill gas cylinders for 100's of bars around town.

Kal

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Master




Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 171
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic

Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They do fill cylinders for local bars. That's why I'm scratching my head on it.

Tag on the cylinder is just Customer #, Name, Job No.

I can't find the ticket at the moment but it had batch number of both CO2 and N2.

This is the same place I get some high purity and general welding gases I need for projects, (I have a regular account here) so I think they just put traceability on all my stuff because I do some aerospace welding and I have to have 100% traceability on process, to include shielding and purge gases. . Was like $24.

That's why I think bad gas is a low probability thing, but I'm kind of at a loss otherwise. Plenty of time. At the right temp. Partial pressure is right for the volumes CO2 . It's just weird that it's dead flat.

Might take it of Beer Gas, put it on a regular CO2 line for a week at 12psi after bleeding the pressure off, and let it sit.

Solubility of N2 at 5C is about .025g/kg and CO2 is about 2.8g/kg, so the N2 left in the beer after I bleed/purge the headspace would be very little, even if it was accidentally a batch of 100% N2.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly odd! I don't have enough information to explain why it's flat.

Kal

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Master




Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 171
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Naked Singularity Stout, Hurricane Bohemian Pilsner, Pineapple Cider, Ich bin ein Berlinerweiss, AbbyNormal Glutton Free Lambic

Working on: Vienna Lager. Witty name to follow.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulled it off the beer gas. Purged headspace, and put on CO2.

Will let sit for a while and report back.
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TimothyLauzon




Joined: 17 May 2021
Posts: 1
Location: New England


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 pm    Post subject: Excellent Recipe! Reply with quote

Brewed 10 gallons at the end of April. Just tapped the first keg. Looks and tastes fantastic. Bought a nitro set up for my kegerator just for this. Thanks for the awesome recipe!

Some video's of the first pours:
https://www.facebook.com/693656779/videos/10157668000096780/
https://www.facebook.com/693656779/videos/10157668000216780/
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a fine lookin beer, and making me thirsty! Thanks for posting!

Kal

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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks to all, most of my questions about brewing the Dry Irish Stout have been answered through this forum. One thing that I would like know is what determines if a mash should go for 90 or 120 minutes?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nickey,

The longer you mash, the more starches that are converted to sugars and the more fermentable the wort becomes.

Read more in the MASH step of my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP guide:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step#STEP_5_Mash

Kal

_________________
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

With this being a lower gravity recipe it seems that a 90 minute mash would be fine. I guess my question is there something observable at 90 minutes that would make one decide to increase the time to 120, or somewhere in between?

Also, it is mentioned in the recipe to sparge with 5.6 - 5.8 pH water. Should this be the target pH reading of the mash? (another area that I was kind of unsure about). Looking at the pH guide it says that lower pH is for a dryer beer. Would this be considered on the low side?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickey wrote:
With this being a lower gravity recipe it seems that a 90 minute mash would be fine.

It's not just gravity but mash temp. 148F is low. Longer = more conversion, lower FG.

Read: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step#STEP_5_Mash
While it's for the Blonde Ale in question which is mashed for 90 mins at 149F, the same idea applies. Here's a quote:

Quote:
While most of the starch to sugar conversion will take place in the first 30-60 minutes, we will mash for 90 minutes to maximize conversion as the mash temperature is low (conversion takes longer at lower temperatures). Some very high gravity beers (such as a strong barleywine) can even benefit from a 120 minute or longer mash. Mashing longer increases the attenuation of the beer, resulting in a lower final gravity or dryer beer. Some brewers like to perform an iodine test to know when their mash is done but unfortunately this test is far from conclusive as it only tests for starches and large dextrins. Smaller weight sugars that are not fermentable may still exist. With more time these will also become fermentable. We recommend skipping the iodine test.

The mash in this example is called a 'single-infusion' mash as a single temperature (149F) is used throughout the 90 minute mash period. It is the simplest and by far the most common method used by home brewers and craft brewers as today's modern malts are already well modified. A well-modified malt has already undergone a lot of process steps that involve different temperatures before it arrives in your hands. The home brewer only needs to mash at a single temperature for efficient starch to sugar conversion. Historically, when under-modified malts were more common, some of these steps had to be done by the brewer by mashing at multiple temperatures (called 'step' mashing). For more information on these and other mashing techniques, see Chapter 16 of How To Brew and Chapter 2 of Brewing Better Beer.

Even with today's highly modified malts there may be times when we want to step mash, such as when maximum fermentability is desired for a very dry beer, or when certain flavours are to be enhanced. See our recipes for examples. Step mashing is easy with our Electric Brewery setup. Simply start at the first temperature and increase as required by using the UP button on the Hot Liquor Tank PID after each rest. The mash temperature will ramp up at a rate of approximately 2 degrees per minute.


Quote:
I guess my question is there something observable at 90 minutes that would make one decide to increase the time to 120, or somewhere in between?

It's not a black and white binary thing. The longer you mash the more fermentable the wort becomes, to a degree. You may gain a point or two by going from 60 or 90 to 120. I suggest trying it both ways and see if you notice get a different attenuation/notice a difference.

Quote:
Also, it is mentioned in the recipe to sparge with 5.6 - 5.8 pH water. Should this be the target pH reading of the mash?

No. It's the sparge water pH.

See my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP for details: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step
You may want to read this too: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/measuring-ph

Quote:
(another area that I was kind of unsure about). Looking at the pH guide it says that lower pH is for a dryer beer. Would this be considered on the low side?

Again, it's not the mash pH here - it's the sparge water pH. You'll notice that most of my recipes say the same thing about keeping the sparge water pH lowish. My BREW DAY STEP BY STEP explains why:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step#STEP_7_Sparge

Here's an extract:

Quote:
To avoid excess tannin extraction from the grain husks, we want the sparge water pH to be below 6.0 (when measured at mash temperature), preferably in the 5.6 to 5.8 range. Take a pH reading by placing the probe tip of the pH meter in the Hot Liquor Tank. If the water is well above the maximum ATC temperature of your pH meter you may want to extract a sample and wait for it to cool slightly first. To lower the pH, add some 88% lactic acid half a milliliter (mL) at a time, wait a few minutes for the acid to recirculate and mix, and re-measure. It usually only takes us one or two milliliters at most in 10-13 gallons to get down into the 5.6 to 5.8 range. All water is different however. Once you know how your water reacts, you'll be able to adjust it without having to measure the pH every time.


You may want to also read this: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/water-adjustment

Cheers!

Kal

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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,
Much to understand here. I brewed the stout yesterday and everything seemed to come off without any real problems (I think).
It did not have as big a hot break as I have been used to with other recipes. Not sure what the reason for that is , just something I noticed. I did misread the aeration/oxygenation part and ran at 1 lpm for 120 second s per 5 gallons when I should have done 60 seconds per 5 gallons. I used an in line stone. Hope that doesn't ruin it. My OG is 1.050 and it has a strong fermentation, it was starting to bubble after about 5 hours. I have tried searching but cannot seem to find the serving pressure for the beer gas. Can you tell me what it is?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the brew day! Your beer will fine I'm sure.

Serving pressure for beer gas depends on the blend ratio and temperature. Some will change ratio depending on line length, diameter, and material to get a balanced system too. So there isn't "one" serving pressure. Now all that said, with beer gas it's less critical as the CO2 gets knocked out of solution by the faucet restrictor plate. Try setting to around ~20-25 PSI for a couple of weeks to carb up. Then see. If it's not enough raise it ~5 PSI wait 2 weeks and try again...

Kal

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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I had one more thing I have been thinking about. Does anyone cold crash the stout before racking to the keg?

I will probably skip the gelatin addition and racking to carboys this time but may try it in the future. It is starting to get a bit hot here and could get upwards of 80 degrees in my shop where I brew, would that be a deal breaker for racking to carboys for the gelatin add?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely up to you. I don't cold crash any of my beers before kegging. Gelatine works at all temps but at lower temps it also removes chill haze (since you let it form first). I don't get chill haze as my process is sound (strong boil with good hot break, strong rolling boil, use of kettle finings, chill quickly, etc), so when I do use gelatine I do it at warmer temps. That said I rarely use it anymore. See the "NOTES / PROCESS" section of all my recipes.

Kal

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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

Can you speculate on why I did not see a significant hot break? I did see one on the Blonde Ale but not this time. I had the boil PID on manual and set at 100. Am I correct in thinking that anything over 100 is not going to have an effect? I never had to reduce the heat. The boil was good, just no big hot break. I did not notice any lengthy time to bring to boil, implying that the element is not weak (if that is even a possibility).

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickey wrote:
Can you speculate on why I did not see a significant hot break?

No idea, sorry. Without being there in person and seeing, it's difficult to comment.

Quote:
I had the boil PID on manual and set at 100. Am I correct in thinking that anything over 100 is not going to have an effect?

You can't set the PID higher than 100 when on manual as you can't go above 100%. At 100% the PID is firing 100% of the time so over 100% is not possible.

Kal

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nickey




Joined: 07 Feb 2022
Posts: 31
Location: Kentucky


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

I have been thinking about the gravity of this beer. The O.G. was 1.050 and currently it is 1.010. I think that is somewhere around 5.5% alcohol.
The further down it goes will only increase the alcohol content so I am thinking I should have done something differently to get nearer the targeted amount of 4.2%

I collected 13.9 gallons of wort for the boil and I failed to take a pre boil gravity, which was a mistake. Of course at the time I did not know what to target for a pre boil gravity but feel that if I had collected a bit more liquid for the boil and then boiled longer I would have been in a better place. Or, would I still be in the same position?

Thanks
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