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Beersmith Equipment Profile
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linman



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 3



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Basically it will adjust your timings and volumes adjust for loss and boil off rate and what not....

Pretty new with it myself, but if you set it all up right it will make a custom "brew-day" like document for each recipe. It is pretty easy to come up with on your own, but comparing notes with someone else could save a little work.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What timings?

For volumes for loss it actually lets you put in hose amounts too? Or just dead space in kettles?

It calculates boil-off rate? I don't see how that's possible. That's a factor of kettle geometry (which you can enter in software - Beer tools has this), the amount of wattage/power in the kettle (never seen any software have this), and ambient temperature/humidity levels (never seen any software have this), and even factors like wind, etc (never seen any software have this), and the amount you're boiling.

FWIW I think it's all extra work for nothing.

I calculate the amount of strike water needed, sparge water needed, and then know my boil off rate for my kettles in my environment for my amount of power used - it's 1.9 gallons/hr, and I know how much to add to the mash water due to deadspace/hoses/HERMS - it's 0.72 gal. Everything else comes out of those.

For example here's the template I use for every brew that has the math I need in it. I pre-fill in certain things that I know beforehand like strike/sparge water, grain amount, etc. I then fill in the spots with the underline with pen during the brew day.

Quote:
24.5 lbs of grain. 1.25 qt/lb mash thickness.
Strike water = (24.5 x 1.25)/4 = 7.65 gal + 0.72 gal (deadspace/hoses/HERMS) = 8.38 gal.
Loss to grain absorption = 24.5 x 0.12 = 2.94 gal.
Sparge water = initial kettle volume@68F + grain loss - strike = 14.1 + 2.94 - 8.38 = 8.66 gal.
Filled HLT to ~20 gallon mark. Added 500mg potassium metabisulphite. pH before: _________/________F, after: _________/_________F
Heated to 150F strike temp.

Dough in. pH with salts: _________/__________F. Added _______ ml Lactic acid to mash. pH: __________/__________F.

Mash @ 150F for 90 minutes. pH at end of mash: ________/________F. Mash out to 168F.

Acidify sparge water to under ~6 pH with ________ ml Lactic acid in ________ gallons. pH: __________/__________F.

Sparge with 168F water for ~90 mins. pH of collected wort should be below 6.0 (below 5.6-5.8 preferred).

@ ________ gal: pH=________ SG=__________(_________)F, @ ________ gal: pH=________ SG=__________(_________)F

@ ________ gal: pH=________ SG=__________(_________)F, @ ________ gal: pH=________ SG=__________(_________)F

Total sparge time: _________ minutes.

Gravity units (GU) = Target OG X Target vol @68F = 65 x 12= 780. Pre-boil SG = GU / pre-boil vol @68F = 780/14.1 = 1.055 (at 60F)

Collect 14.1 gallons @ 140-150F (14.6 gallons @ 212F).

Collected _________ gallons in kettle at ________ F. pH= ________/________F (5.5 is typical). SG was 1.0_______/________F (1.0______/60F)

Boil for 60 mins at 85% power. Lid on at flameout when 0 minute hops are added (if applicable). Start chilling immediately.

End volume: ________ gallons at 212F ( ________ gallons at 68F). Boiled off _________ gallons.

Got ~ _________ gallons at 1.0_______/________F (1.0________/60F) into fermenters. pH: ________/_________F (5.2 is typical).

Aerate well (60 seconds with Fizz-X). Hydrate dry yeast for 30-60 mins until frothy prior to pitching.
Ferment WLP051 at 66-68F until complete. Ferment US-05 at 66-68F until complete.
Dry hop for 7-10 days.


Kal

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linman



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 3



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I guess it doesn't calculate the boil off rate. You must input that as part of the Equipment Profile yourself, but it applies that and a number of other values to get target volumes. (cooling shrinkage, dead space loss, chiller loss, fermentation loss, etc)

If you get your profiles correct it will adjust recipes, volumes and everything on the fly when you change your batch size.

The demo is free to try and would clear things up better than I can. And I agree, it is probably unneeded extra work, but hey I could buy my beer instead of make it also Smile
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - Beer Tools Pro also has you enter your boil off rate. It's listed as Evap./Hour:



I don't think you need anything special to be able to adjust recipes/volumes on the fly. I do this myself and have never entered anything about my setup other than boil off rate and efficiency.

I can then change the Final Volume and it'll scale the recipe for me. I do then however calculate the strike/sparge water by hand using the formulas listed above.

Kal

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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening,

I stumbled across this thread trying to find a Beersmith profile for my setup. After going over what Kal posted I almost find Beersmith to be unnecessary. I understand the calculations early on but I'm lost about midway down.


Gravity units (GU) = Target OG X Target vol @68F = 65 x 12= 780. Pre-boil SG = GU / pre-boil vol @68F = 780/14.1 = 1.055 (at 60F)


Where does the 65 come from? I see the final number as 1.055 and that is what I'm use to seeing for an OG. 780/14.1 = 55.319... Where does 1.055 come from?

Thanks,

- D
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

65 is whatever your target OG is. In this case 1.065. Just the last 2 numbers.

Same with 55. It's the last 2 numbers of 1.055.

So if a number is 100, we mean 1.100.

Kal

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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
65 is whatever your target OG is. In this case 1.065. Just the last 2 numbers.

Same with 55. It's the last 2 numbers of 1.055.

So if a number is 100, we mean 1.100.

Kal



This part specifically.

"65 x 12= 780. Pre-boil SG = GU / pre-boil vol @68F = 780/14.1 = 1.055"

I don't know what the 65 is because the OG is 1.055 The 65 you mention doesn't equate to 1.055 or (1.065). Maybe a typo? You multiply it by 12 (your final volume) to get 780. The final calculation is 780/14.1 which I don't understand either. My math is 55.391. I'm not sure how 1.055 is calculated.

Edit: I get it. Thanks.
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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this beer had a target OG of 1.065 and with your grain bill you estimated 1.055?

You have to know the published OG from a recipe first...there is no way to calculate this without knowing published numbers? You can't just develop a recipe on your own and calculate the OG?

I understand the 55.391 equating to 1.055 but I'm still not fully understanding the 65.

I feel like I'm missing something.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.065 is the final gravity (post boil). 1.055 is the pre-boil gravity.

I went through and the math seems right:

Gravity units (GU) = Target OG X Target vol @68F = 65 x 12= 780.
Pre-boil SG = GU / pre-boil vol @68F = 780/14.1 = 1.055 (at 60F)

So you want 1.055 before the boil, and 1.065 after.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sillbeer wrote:
You have to know the published OG from a recipe first...there is no way to calculate this without knowing published numbers? You can't just develop a recipe on your own and calculate the OG?

I don't understand what you're asking.

Every setup has a different mash efficiency and boil off rates, meaning that on system "X" 10 pounds of grain may give you 1.050, and on system "Y" you may get 1.060 with the same 10 pounds.

Until you've brewed a few times on a setup, you don't know your mash efficiency or boil off rate. So the first time you're just guessing. Once you know your mash efficiency and boil off rate you use brewing software to tell you how much grain you need to hit your target OG.

For more info, see my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP guide.

Kal

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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is starting to make sense. Every system is different and will have different numbers based on that specific system.

Efficiency and boil off rate as factors.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct!

Give my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP guide a read for more info - it walks you through everything: www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step

Kal

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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reading through it now. Thank you much.
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David_H



Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Posts: 139
Location: Savannah, GA

Drinking: Dry Irish Stout, Electric Pale Ale, American Amber Ale, Irish Red Ale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using Beersmith for quite sometime now, so I thought I would add my two cents.
The beersmith equipment profile is mainly to support the infusion mash process, where you need to now exact thermal characteristics of the equipment to be able to right mash temperatures when mixing grist, water and equipment all at different temperatures. It calculates and maintains the volume information for mash water, sparge water, losses, and boil off. For the Kal system, most of this does not matter, since we have more than enough water in the HLT and we use a direct heat (HERMS) temperature control system.

Specific Gravity (SG): 1.055 and 55 points are two ways of expressing the same thing, the amount of sugar in the wort (or final beer). The 1.055 is the "correct and proper" value expressed as the ratio of density (Wt/Vol) of the wort / water. The 55 points is a direct expression of the amount of sugar and is a much easier form to use. Each grain has the potential to release a certain amount of sugar when mashed and is expressed in Points per Pounds per Gallon (PPG). Your typical base malt has a potential PPG of 36-37. This means that 1 lb of grain mashed in 1 gallon of water has the potential to yield a wort with a SG = 1.036, ie 36 Points. This makes the math of building a recipe much easier. Sum up all the PPG * Lb of all of the grain bill and you have the total potential sugar, divide that by the gallons of water and you get a "potential" specific gravity.

Efficiency: Efficiency covers a very wide range of meanings. The simplest is how much of the potential sugars you started with end up in the fermenter to be converted by the yeast into beer. Or how much sugar did you lose or leave behind in the process. Efficiency can and is measured at each step in the process. The first is Mash Efficiency, how well did you convert the starches in the gains into sugar. Second is Sparge Efficiency, how well did you rise the grain to get as much of the sugar converted through the Mash off the grain and into the Boil Kettle. A third could be process efficiency, how much sugar laden water did you leave behind, etc. Add to this the wort left in the BK or in the hoses, etc.

When Kal expresses an efficiency of 95% he is talking about Mash Efficiency, how well did he convert the grain starches into sugar. The overall efficiency, is called the Brewhouse Efficiency and is typically between 70-80%. The calculations would go like this
Grain bill for a 10 gallon batch
17 lb Base Malt (37 PPG)
3 lb Specialty Malt (33 PPG)
Total Potential Sugar (17*37) + (3*33) = 728 Potential Points of Sugar
Lets say I get 10.5 gallons of wort at SG = 1.055 (55 PPG) into the Fermenter and then bottle or keg 10 gallons of that.

Total "sugar" in the final beer is 55 PPG * 10 gallons = 550 Total Points.
Brewhouse Efficiency is 550 / 728 = 76% That's a pretty good day.

Hopefully this helps a little.
<minor spelling edits>

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20 gallon Spike Brewing 3-Kettle System
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Last edited by David_H on Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks David. Some good information there!

Kal

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sillbeer



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 46
Location: West Point, UT


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thank you David. That was exactly what I was looking for. It made perfect sense.
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Anticlimaddox



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 89
Location: Harrisonburg, VA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal..

Quick math question.. I'm setting up some spread sheets for brew day that follow your brew day template (posted above) to figure out Strike and Sparge amounts as well as total pre-boil volume. The numbers you have in your Brew Day step by step add up perfectly. But in your example above, where is 14.1 coming from?



Why would it not be 13.9 pre boil volume? (12g to fermentor + (1 hour boil * 1.9 evap rate) = 13.9
The brew day guide is accurate (12g to fermentor +(1.5 hour boil * 1.9 evap rate) = 14.85

- - -

Not criticizing your math, just curious if I missed something or something has changed since the post above. Bear in mind I went to art school so my own math prowess is not something I lean heavily on but im trying to make it match up with your brew day example as it went flawlessly!

Thanks!
//brian

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's likely a typo. Go with what's in the actual guides. The guides tend to have a lot more scrutiny. Posting on the forum and emails is done hundreds of times /day across multiple websites so I may miss a few things. Wink

Kal

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Anticlimaddox



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 89
Location: Harrisonburg, VA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotcha - will do. I continue to appreciate the effort put into this. Cheers.
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adyteo



Joined: 25 Aug 2017
Posts: 3
Location: Acworth, GA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David_H wrote:

Hopefully this helps a little.


Thanks so much for the info. Now that I have finally finished building my system, the information you have provided will help me have a better start.
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