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English Pub Ale
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: English Pub Ale Reply with quote


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Recipe is here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/english-pub-ale

Questions? Ask below. Cheers!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:05 pm; edited 39 times in total
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g8tors




Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good. I'm not too familiar with how to use the mixed gas. Do you carbonate the keg with CO2 and then use the Nitrogen/CO2 mix to push the beer? Or do you carbonate the beer with the mixed gas as well as for serving? If so, does it take longer to carbonate the beer with the mixed gas?

Thanks,

Scott
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

g8tors wrote:
I'm not too familiar with how to use the mixed gas.


Neither was I ~4 months ago and I'm still learning. Wink When I was doing my research the information was all over the place.

When I first got all the equiment to do a nitro/Co2 setup I had a keg of Irish Red that was already carb'ed with 100% CO2 to about 2 volumes. I wanted to move that over and start serving with 30/70 CO2/Nitro but I got nothing but foam no matter how low I set the regulator pressure.

So I took the keg out and degassed it as much as possible by letting it warm up to room temp over 48 hours with the lid slightly cracked. I then put it back in to chill, attached it to the CO2/Nitro blend regulator and starting at low pressure and worked my way up after it cooled. I did this over a period of many weeks. It does pick up some gas over time and it does take a good 2-3 weeks but eventually get you a fantastic CO2/Nitro pour. So time to carb is about the same as CO2. Maybe a bit longer. My kegerator's at about 32F and at around 12-15 PSI it worked well with this 30/70 blend (by comparison sake my CO2 regulator's set to about 4-5 PSI because of how cold the beer is).

I also serve my Fulllers ESB "clone" on this beer gas blend and for that one I took a freshly filled keg of it (not carb'ed at all with CO2, only residual carbonation left) and put it in the kegerator with the regular still set to 12-15 PSI, keezer at 32F. It took a good 2-3 weeks to carb up before I got that nice cascading pour and creamy head.

I'm actually still playing with it but it's been a few months now and I think I've found a good balancing point. I find there's only so much reading/research/calculations you can do about these things. You just need to try it out for yourself. Problem is that it'll likely take me a long time (many months or even years of trying out different things before being 100% sure).

The only "issue" at this point is that having a tap that has to wait 2-3 weeks to pour right is kind of annoying. I have a new conditioning/carbonating fridge that holds 6 kegs that was specifically so that I wouldn't have to wait, but the tank in it for pre-carb'ing is CO2 only. I can take a beer on CO2 out of this fridge and put in my serving keezer and it's ready to go. Not true for something I serve on beer gas (CO2/Nitro blend).

For the second keg of this English Pub Ale I left it on CO2 for 3 days to see if that helps reduce the time. I'll see once the first keg pops how it is after I hook it up. If it's half way there and isn't too foamy, next time I'll try 6 days of CO2 for these beers I eventually end up serving on blended gas. Lots of trial and error and it's completely depending on regulator pressure and the temperature of the beer.

I get the feeling that you'll get slightly different carbonation from sitting on 30/70 blend vs 100% CO2. It doesn't really make sense to me since Nitrogen doesn't really get into the beer as easily but I'm not sure. In an ideal world I'd have a second tank/regulator in the conditioning fridge just for blended gas but there's little room left (see pic below). I don't like the idea of only hooking up gas for a certain amount of days. I prefer the set and forget method of a balanced system.



Kal

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Last edited by kal on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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g8tors




Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the in depth explanation. I too like the set and forget method and use that for all my beers. I think I will get a tank of mixed gas for my stouts for I have been disappointed with my last two stouts because of the lack of body. The latest issue of BYO mentions that mixed gas will improve body.

Scott
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sirmellor




Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 16



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used beer gas (70/30 mix) for many years to serve my English beers.
I also use it with a beer engine via a cask breather to keep a blanket of gas on top of the beer. This prevents oxidization without forcing any beer through the engine.
So in my kegerator I have both co2 and beer gas. When I keg my English ales I always hook them up to the co2 in the kegerator, unless they are on the beer engine.
Then I serve them like that until I feel the co2 bite getting to much for my taste. Then I switch over to the beer gas. Its a low tech method but works for me.
If you like the creamy low carbonation that you get in the widgit cans, then a beer engine is a great investment but you must use it with the sprinkler attached. This is typical for all northern english ales, in the south of england they tend not to use the sprinkler and you lose that tight creamy head and mouth feel.

Thanks, Richard
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirmellor wrote:
So in my kegerator I have both co2 and beer gas. When I keg my English ales I always hook them up to the co2 in the kegerator, unless they are on the beer engine.
Then I serve them like that until I feel the co2 bite getting to much for my taste. Then I switch over to the beer gas. Its a low tech method but works for me.

Interesting. I think I'll try that next time.

Quote:
If you like the creamy low carbonation that you get in the widgit cans, then a beer engine is a great investment but you must use it with the sprinkler attached. This is typical for all northern english ales, in the south of england they tend not to use the sprinkler and you lose that tight creamy head and mouth feel.

Agreed with the sprinkler. I would prefer it as well, though I know it's highly debated topic amonst "real ale" aficionados with no right or wrong answer.

Do you find the beer engine requires a rinse each evening after use? Difficult to clean?

Kal

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sirmellor




Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 16



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, you are right about the sprinkler, in England it truly is a north/south divide issue. I believe it comes down to what you were brought up with.
As far as cleaning the beer engine, I'm a little bit embarrassed to say I only clean it when I clean the other beer lines Embarassed
But having said that I do clean the sprinkler every time I use it.
I also typically pull about half a pint and discard it before pulling my first pint.
I look forward to brewing your English pub ale, it might be the first I do when I get my control panel! I will probable use the wyeast west Yorkshire 1469 yeast. I believe this is the Timothy Taylor's yeast which is a great beer I grew up on.

Thanks, Richard
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirmellor wrote:
I look forward to brewing your English pub ale, it might be the first I do when I get my control panel! I will probable use the wyeast west Yorkshire 1469 yeast. I believe this is the Timothy Taylor's yeast which is a great beer I grew up on.

Excellent! Let us know how it turns out. That's one yeast strain I've never used myself.

Reading the Wyeast description on 1469:

Quote:
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale

Flocculation: High
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 64-72'F (18-22'C)
Alcohol Tolerance: 9%ABV

This strain produces ales with a full chewy malt flavor and character, but finishes dry, producing famously balanced beers. Expect moderate nutty and stone-fruit esters. Best used for the production of cask-conditioned bitters, ESB and mild ales. Reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.


It sounds quite similar to 1968:

Quote:
Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale

Flocculation: Very High
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 64-72F, 18-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 9% ABV

A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. Bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration.


Similar attenuation and flocc'ing abilities, both very malty. I think I'll make a note to try this beer with 1469 next time. That's one of the nice things about liquid yeast choices ... there are so many you can make dozens of completely different beers by only changing the yeast.

Kal

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ahaslam




Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I force carb for a N/Co2 mix by forcing a small amount of Co2 (perhaps only 1 - 2 psi) then connecting up the mixed gas and serving

Here's the result on a dry Irish stout poured 5 mins earlier after being kegged only 1/2 an hour before. It keeps improving as with any conditioned beer but the effect of the Nitrogen on the taste tends to hide the unconditioned aspects of the beer.



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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahaslam wrote:
I force carb for a N/Co2 mix by forcing a small amount of Co2 (perhaps only 1 - 2 psi) then connecting up the mixed gas and serving

Can you describe more what you mean exactly when you say you "force" a small amount CO2 at 1-2 PSI? What temperature is the beer at?

I have 2-3 kegs of beer that I want to serve on 30/70 blend in my conditioning fridge that is currently at 32F and has zero carbination (other than what was residual in the beer after fermentation). I'd love to be able to take one and put it in my serving keezer without havng to wait 2-3 weeks after I hook it up to the 30/70 blend.

Kal

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Feurhund




Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 89



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

What stout faucet did you choose? I am looking for an all stainless one. Don't like the plastic spouts. Stainless brewing.com had one but stopped carrying them. Thanks.
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ahaslam




Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally force carbonate my beer straight after a period of cold crashing - so it will be pretty clse to 0 deg C.

The process for force carbonating a beer in preparation for serving for nitrogen is just a shortened version of how I normally force carbonate as described below:

1. Set your Co2 pressure to about 40-45psi and connect to the keg.
2. Force air out by bleeding keg through release valve.
3. Invert the keg and shake/roll to encourage the dissolution of co2 into the beer.
4. After a while (more on this below), turn the keg the right way up, close the tap on the co2 tank then roll/agitate the keg on it's base to allow the pressure in the headspace to disperse into the beer and to equalize.
5. By watching where the pressure gauge finally settles as you agitate the keg, you will be ale to see how much pressure you have forced into the beer thus far.
6. Repeat from step 3. until the equalized pressure is at or just below the target carbonation for your beer.

Non nitrogen beers still benefit from 4 - 5 days conditioning as the carbonation becomes finer and less soda-like. Nitrogen served beers seem to be fine right there and then as the nitrogen has a much finer mouthfeel than Co2 to start with. As I mentioned earlier, the nitrogen masks a lot of flavour too (seems to be the defining characteristic of 'smooth-pour' beers), meaning that it's drinkable sooner.

Regarding how long to agitate for: It takes a bit of experience to know how long to 'force' it for before measuring it but it's generally a couple of minutes for a higher carbonated beer or for the aforementioned stout, about 30 seconds. In any case, dropping the pressure is a matter of letting the beer sit for a day or 2 with the release valve twisted open.


I use a nitrogen mix of 20% Co2/80% N - here in NZ its called Cellamix 12. There are other versions with higher Co2 and they are also used for serving stouts and other smooth pour beers - but it was explained to me that one of the main uses for the higher Co2 mixes was to maintain the pressure of beers in kegs for a long time without the risk of overcarbonation, which seems to happen with partially full kegs left at servig Co2 pressure.

[EDIT] Forgot to mention that you will need to hold the keg pressure at much higher levels with nitrogen mixes - basically, the less Co2, the higher the pressure. I leave my 20/80 mix at around 30-35psi. Guinness recommend 20/80 mix at 40psi but I find this results in with too much head on the beer after a week or so in the keg.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feurhund wrote:
What stout faucet did you choose? I am looking for an all stainless one. Don't like the plastic spouts. Stainless brewing.com had one but stopped carrying them. Thanks.

See this post for the bar taps and other bar items I used:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=290842#290842

They did come with black plastic spouts.
I replaced them with these SS ones:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F7R7YK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000F7R7YK&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20

Kal

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Cactus




Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Location: The inferno


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been serving pub ales and stouts through a stout faucet and achieving the coveted velvety beer fall by doing the following:

Beer gas mix not required.
Force carbonate to approx 1 volume of co2
When serving, increase your pressure to approx 15-20 psi to push through the restrictor in the stout tap.
Pour about 1/2 pint with the glass sitting flat. Wait 2 minutes.
Top up and enjoy the beer fall.
When finished with the session, reduce the head pressure back to the level required for 1 volume of co2.

I got this method from an old byo article. The nitrogen in beer gas doesn't readily dissolve in your product but rather it is used to push the beer hard without over carbing. By manipulating your keg pressures as described above you can achieve the exact same results as a pub does with beer gas. Of course, a publican doesn't want to continually fiddle with keg pressures so beer gas is a better solution for him or her.

Give it a try!

Cactus
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I brewed this English Pub Ale again today... I went for a slightly lower ABV of 4.2% just to make this beer more quaffable. It seems that lately I've been making so many high ABV beers (7.3% West Coast IPA and 10.6% RIS) I had to go and make a few lower alcohol beers.

Brew day went perfectly and the wort is now tucked away with the WLP002 yeast. Should only take 5-7 days to ferment out but I'll leave it a couple of weeks.

Speaking of low ABV beers, I also recently made a 4.3% version of my Electric Pale Ale after trying Muskoka's Detour IPA which clocks in at 4.3% ABV (link: http://www.muskokabrewery.com/detour.php). I swear it's just like my Electric Pale Ale, just lower ABV. Both use Citra as a dry hop. (I'll be posting the recipe changes soon, after I make sure it turned out how I expected - so far so good - it's been in the conditioning fridge for 4-5 days now)

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested in possibly adding this to my British "brew it" list. However, I didn't want to brew 10 gallons if I didn't like. Luckily, local Safeway had a sale on a 4 pack for $6.99 plus tax. Very good ale. The nitro widget is adds a nice creamy head, similar to the Guinness widget.

Cool can with history and instructions on temp to refrigerate, how to pour and how to "Wait... and watch the head settle on a perfect glass of Boddingtons Pub Ale.".

Definitely on my brew list.

Now the bad part. ABInBev is the US distributor of Boddingtons. Also, Boddingtons Pub Ale, is brewed by AB InBev UK Limited, Luton, England.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kraig wrote:
Now the bad part. ABInBev is the US distributor of Boddingtons. Also, Boddingtons Pub Ale, is brewed by AB InBev UK Limited, Luton, England.

More reason to brew it yourself then!

Kal

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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 334
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again Kal's recipe nailed it. Knew I wanted to brew this recipe and I did a few weeks ago. Transferring into keg today for carbonating. There was a small amount left over. Thought I'd sample, yes uncarbonated, some. This is it! This is the Boddington's Pub Ale clone. Also, as stated, the Wyeast 1968, is very flocculant and drops clear.

Kudos to Kal for another great recipe.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear KB! Enjoy the beer!

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recipe has been re-written and moved to our new site.

See: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/english-pub-ale

This thread will remain open for questions. Cheers!

Kal

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