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skelley
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 210 Location: brookfield, wisconsin
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I also just noticed that you are delivering the wort to fermenting buckets that are well below the leve of your kettle. I pump into conicals that have their top at the level of my brew table if not higher. I wonder if you bet a better siphon effect??
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I forgot to post is how fast the temperature dropped after the heat was turned off.
I've had no experience with cooling times as I've always been a "lid on at flameout and chill ASAP" type of guy because (up until now) this is what I had read was the best thing to do to "lock in" hop flavours and aromas. (Similar to what you do with a Hop Back where wort flows through hops and contact time is minimal and the wort is chilled immediately, supposedly locking in the flavour/aroma).
Here's what I observed in 12 gallons of wort (post-boil), ambient indoor temp of 65F. The lid was off at all times, the wort stirred gently every 10 mins.
00:00 - Upon turning off the power the temp dropped from 210F to 208F almost immediately.
01:00 - Added 6 oz of room temp hops. Temp dropped to 206F.
03:00 - Temp at 203F
08:00 - Temp at 196F
13:00 - Temp at 192F
25:00 - Temp at 182F
30:00 - Temp at 178F. Added second dose (10 oz) of hops.
30:00 to 80:00 - At this point I set the boil kettle to 170F to avoid going any lower. The temperature settled out at 170F and stayed there for the rest of the hop stand with the boil kettle element firing periodically. The firing of the element does not create a violent boil or stir, just enough movement to keep the hops moving around without me having to stir as much.
Kal
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kuestess
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 4
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Link Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Kal, care to share your Hopslam recipe?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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kuestess wrote: | Kal, care to share your Hopslam recipe? |
Sure. I've made it a couple of times ago. It's a recipe I got somewhere (don't remember where). I have no idea how accurate it is as I've never done a direct comparison. The real beer calls for honey I believe. I don't bother.
Quote: | Bell's Hopslam IIPA (140)
Original Gravity: 1.087 (1.075 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.016 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 7.35 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 9.42% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 154.6 (60.0 - 120.0)
Ingredients:
(81.6%) Standard 2-Row (1.8L) - added during mash
(6.5%) Vienna Malt (3.55L) - added during mash
(3.3%) Caramunich® TYPE I (34.35L) - added during mash
2.0 oz (7.1%) Columbus (12.3%) - added first wort, boiled 60 m
2.0 oz (14.3%) Simcoe (12.2%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m
2.0 oz (7.1%) Chinook (11.4%) - added during boil, boiled 45 m
2.0 oz (7.1%) Centennial (11.1%) - added during boil, boiled 30 m
2.0 oz (7.1%) Citra (11.1%) - added during boil, boiled 15 m
1 ea Whirlfloc Tablets (Irish moss) - added during boil, boiled 15 m
2.625 lb (8.6%) White Table Sugar (Sucrose) - added during boil, boiled 10 m
2.0 oz (7.1%) Amarillo (10.1%) - added during boil, boiled 10 m
4.0 oz (14.3%) Amarillo (10.1%) - steeped after boil
4.0 oz (14.3%) Simcoe (12.2%) - added during boil
48 g Fermentis US-05 Safale US-05 or WY1056 / WLP001
6.0 oz (21.4%) Simcoe (12.2%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
Notes:
1.25 qt/lb mash thickness.
Single infusion mash at 150F
Boil for 60 mins.
Ferment at 64-68F.
Dry hops for 7-10 days in secondary. |
For water profiles, take a look at any of the hoppy american beers in the recipes section. That's what I'd target. (If you do manipulate your water).
Kal
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nemis79
Joined: 01 Aug 2012 Posts: 1
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you keep the lid off during the hop stand? Wouldn't this drive off a lot of the hop aroma due to evaporation?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 221 Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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If you leave the lid on when the wort is above 140F you are more likely to develop DMS in your beer. Evaporation is going to happen anyway, I don't believe it would have that large of an impact on the hop aroma.
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RetiredD
Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Posts: 1 Location: Beverley England
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Everything I had read abot hop stands said to leave the lid off. Not really sure why. The temperature dropped fast and there wasn't much that appeared to was no longer evaporating after a few minutes.
Kal |
Hi Kal, new here, as this subject is of interest, and I have played around with it a bit for some time now,
I first saw it on the northern brewer forum back in 2009 from a post by Kristen England. I also read about the test in the hops book, you mention.
I think you will find you need to keep the lid on. He mentions that here http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76188#p711006
This is meant to help keep aroma etc, but now you can at least do another batch, and compare if it made a difference !.
My suggestion is to play around with this on a recipe that you know and like, then you have a control that you can compare to.
I have actually used this on your Electric Pale Ale recipe, so I would say, use this method and compare to the tastes and aromas you know from that.
It's all a bit trial and error, but with that brew, because you know it so well, if you improve it you will know !.
For starters, just do as Kristen and Van Havig say and move half your dry hop hops to the stand, and see what you think. From there I think you will find it easier to play with on other recipes I.M.H.O.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE:
I tried a taste of this beer last night when I took a gravity reading (it's been 9 days since I pitched and it's down to 1.012, I figure it'll end up around 1.010 which is where I was hoping it would end up).
Normally I don't take readings until a good two weeks or so (depends on the beer/fermentation temp/etc.) have passed and I know it's done fermenting and cleaning up, but this one was a special case since I only added hops only after the boil (16 oz).
I was worried that it would be overly hoppy but it's actually the opposite: If I was to get it analyzed, the measured IBUs is likely in the 30-40 range at the most. It's really hard to tell. There's bitterness but it's extremely smooth with a ton of hop flavour and aroma. The best way to describe it is it tastes the way a handful of hops smells when you hold them up to your face. Not astringent or bitter, just tons of flavour.
It'll be interesting to see how it behaves over time, if it fades at all. The competition this will be entered in is in exactly 6 weeks. By the time I dry hop and keg, it should have a good 4 weeks in the keg carbonating and conditioning. It should be in its prime.
Fingers crossed!
Kal
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I may have to try this on an APA soon... very interesting concept. I want to see how your hops hold out over time though. Seems like it is doing very well so far though.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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jbsengineer
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 49
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Hey Kal,
Do you always count on .5 gallons of thermal expansion after the boil? How did you calculate that?
Also, how do you measure your PH when the temp is above 150? Do you take a sample from the mash?
Josh
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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jbsengineer wrote: | Do you always count on .5 gallons of thermal expansion after the boil? |
Yes. That's how much 12 gallons expands between room temp and boiling.
Quote: | How did you calculate that? |
There are online calculators available. I don't remember exactly where.
Quote: | Also, how do you measure your PH when the temp is above 150? Do you take a sample from the mash? |
I do it directly in the mash. The pH meter may only be rated to a certain temp but that's not a brick wall number where it won't work above 150F, it'll simply start to give you possibly a larger margin of error than what they quote the pH meter can do if you go above that. So I measure anyway and use those values as it's usually only a few degrees above.
When I mash in the temp is always lower too.
Kal
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I kegged it a few days ago and forgot to post about it... mostly because there isn't much to say or show.
The two kegs are now sitting in my conditioning fridge at 32F with the CO2 gas attached so they they'll carb up to about 5 PSI:
Not much to see. It's kegs in a fridge.
I did taste it after 24-36 hours and now that it's cold (but not 100% carbed) it still has a ton of hop flavour, not much aroma from what I can tell and isn't overly bitter.
To use what is probably an overused marketing phrase: It tastes like liquid hops. To use a term from wine: The hop flavour seems to have excellent 'length' (the amount of time the flavour stays with you after you swallow it).
It reminds me a lot of sorts of American IPAs I like to make (lot of late hop additions) but without the up front bitterness that is usually included as well. So far it's definitely the most flavourful APA I've had.
It'll be interesting to see how it fares in 2-4 weeks once it is fully carb'ed up and cleared. It's going into a local tasting that a bunch of brewers are doing in early May so I'll make sure to collect comments and post back.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:15 pm; edited 3 times in total
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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If this is your "conditioning" fridge, why do you have beer lines on the kegs? Are those picnic taps just for sampling or do those lead into a trunk line for serving?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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huaco wrote: | If this is your "conditioning" fridge, why do you have beer lines on the kegs? Are those picnic taps just for sampling or do those lead into a trunk line for serving? |
It helps with sampling but I've also had it happen once or twice that the poppet on the out line will sometimes not sit exactly right so that when I hook up the gas beer starts pouring out. Not fun.
So I always attach QDs with 6-12" of hose on little picnic taps first just to make sure the beer has nowhere to go. The picnic tap seems to make a more reliable seal than the poppet on the QD.
Helps with sampling too of course. It's funny - no matter how many you have on tap, it's the newest things that are always the most interesting to try. One of the reasons for wanting twice as many taps in our current bar setup is that I would stop going into the back room to pour the newest "more interesting" think for a friend who came over. Of course, the amount on tap has nothing to do with what's the latest thing brewed. I could have 50 taps and they'd still want to try the latest!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, you only made the pipeline bigger. You will always have fresh new stuff to tempt you! lol...
That's a good idea about the little picnic taps! Will file that back in the memory bank.
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skelley
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 210 Location: brookfield, wisconsin
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Link Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Kal
could you explain you set up for sampling the keg while it is carbing? Not sure what you mean by QDs and picnic taps??
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