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How much hops if only hopping during flameout (hop stand)?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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huaco wrote:
Did I miss something about a "Competition" Are you brewing this specific way to stay within the confines of rules for a competition?

Yup! It's an APA competition for our local brewing group. The grain bill is more or less set, the starting gravity set, yeast choice is US-05/WLP001/WY1056. 5 different hops are allowed in any combination and amount you like but it's supposed to be 40 IBU. I figured I'd try something completely different. Without someone sending it off for analysis, there's no way someone can prove or disprove it's 40 IBU. Wink

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mashed in and hit 5.25 pH with only the grain and the salts I added, so no need for any extra lactic acid to bring the pH down further.

About half way through the ~90 minute mash:



The Hot Liquor Tank is set to 150F mash temp and the Mash/Lauter Tun is following exactly.

The wort is already fairly clear:



Added 2 ml of 88% lactic acid to the 13.5 gallons of water left in the HLT to get ready for sparging. This bring my city water down to about 5.8 pH.

Kal

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Ben58




Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done the hop stand on our Hoppily Married the last 2 batches. i moved the flame-out hops to addition at 180 and stand for 30 minutes. Definately notice a better aroma and flavour!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 90 minute mash is done so the HLT temperature raised from 150F to 168F to perform a mashout. No valves or hoses are touched. The mash will automatically rise in temperature.

15 minutes into the mash-out, the HLT has already reached and is holding at 168F, and the mash has gone from 150F to 162F:



The entire mashout-out took approximately 20 minutes and then sparging starts.


168F water is deposited on top of the grain mash in the MLT:




Sweet wort coming out of the bottom of the MLT is collected in the boil kettle:



The sweet work is perfectly clear after having been circulated through the mash grain bed (which acts like a filter) for 90 minutes.

Kal

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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are making me quite jealous... This play-by-play brew day and here I am... at my desk!

Looks great Kal!
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Kevin59




Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 1047
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but working at a desk on a computer all day long allows us to brew vicariously.... Mr. Green
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
This play-by-play brew day and here I am... at my desk!

So am I! For the most part.

I find brewing on this setup very little work, especially in a dedicated room. There's really very little to do up until the boil and then you can start cleaning things (like the mash tun). Still not overly busy though. Most of the work I find is the night before when I get the recipe straightened out, measure out/mill the grain, measure the salt additions, measuring out hops, etc.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparging finished and I ended up with exactly 14.4 gallons of wort at the expected gravity. I took a break after sparging for dinner and to take the kids for a walk before starting the boil (now heating up).

Spent grain:



14.4 gallons of 1.029/141F wort, ready to be boiled down to 1.052/68F:



Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vigorous rolling boil has now started and will continue for 90 minutes. It's mostly 2-row so a 60 minute boil would normally be fine, but given that the wort will be chilled lightly after boil when hops are added, I'm going to boil longer to minimize SMM/DMS as much as possible.



Kal

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Holter




Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Thursday brew day. Fantastic! Are you going to get to taste the other beers at the competition Kal? If so that will be an awesome comparison - this competition with limited ingredient variables is like the perfect marriage for your experiment. Very very awesome.
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Holter
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the competition is not anything overly official or sanctioned: Everyone brings what they made and we taste and (I believe) have score sheets.

Kal

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Holter




Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats great. Ive been pushing our local homebrew club to organize an APA thing kind of like what your group is doing. I want to regulate all of the ingredients and processes as much as possible. Same grains, same yeast, same ferm schedule, mash temp, etc. Same hop schedule but every brewer uses different hops with the same targeted IBU. Im far too impatient to do all of the beers myself but i think it would be fun to see what flavor and aroma characteristics each different hop gave. You will kind of get the same payoff with yours.
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mvakoc




Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 152
Location: Evergreen, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

My takeaway, given your photos earlier in this thread, is how do you have such a stunningly clean hopstopper? I have certainly not had the satisfaction you have had in the ability of this device -- I feel I have too often left too much wort in the kettle. I do know that despite my best efforts of scraping, spraying, and PBWing my hopstopper, it certainly does not look as clean as that photo above. Do you "refresh" this periodically? Just wondering because, as some others have experienced, the only difficulty I have is pulling the full amount of potential wort.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waiting patiently for the boil to finish (less than 3 minutes to go):



Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boil is over and I hit 12 gallon target bang on (at boiling it's actually 12.5 due to thermal expansion):



Heat off, the hot break and vigorous boil have made the wort look like egg drop soup:



6 oz of hops to be added:



Hops in!:



This thick hoppy film quickly dropped. I stirred gently every 10 minutes.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 oz were added 30 minutes after flameout:



These will be steeped for 50 minutes, for a total of 80 minute steep of all hops combined.


Hops in!:




After a minute the hops fall below the surface:




I was surprised at how fast the wort was cooling off so the boil kettle was set to 170F to ensure it did not drop below. In this photo below you see that it's dropped to 174F after 39 minutes:



Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mvakoc wrote:
My takeaway, given your photos earlier in this thread, is how do you have such a stunningly clean hopstopper? I have certainly not had the satisfaction you have had in the ability of this device -- I feel I have too often left too much wort in the kettle. I do know that despite my best efforts of scraping, spraying, and PBWing my hopstopper, it certainly does not look as clean as that photo above. Do you "refresh" this periodically? Just wondering because, as some others have experienced, the only difficulty I have is pulling the full amount of potential wort.

About once a year I give it a good soak in oxyclean. Turns out I just did it recently...

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Filling the fermenters:





Got about 11 gallons total. The massive amount of hop sludge in the boil kettle sucked up a good gallon of wort.


Hop Stopper showing the level of hop sludge:



Reminds of me of the kind of sludge I get when I brew Pliny the Elder. Similar but different... the sludge this time was not as light. It was more compact.






All cleaned up:




Heading to the bar for a beer (and to post this):




So how does the wort taste? Very hoppy as you would imagine, but not a bitter as when I've made other extremely hoppy beers such as Pliny or HopSlam. The aroma is over the top.

Yeast has been pitched (WY1056 in one fermenter, US-05 in the other) so time will tell if the aroma/flavour subsides from fermentation.

Stay tuned!

Kal

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skelley




Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Location: brookfield, wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sludge at the bottom of you BK is amazing. Were you able to draw wort off to that degree or did you drain some before taking the picture. I have never been able to suck that much wort off of the hops with my hop stopper. Do you skim the HOT break at the start of the boil?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skelley wrote:
The sludge at the bottom of you BK is amazing. Were you able to draw wort off to that degree or did you drain some before taking the picture. I have never been able to suck that much wort off of the hops with my hop stopper.

I didn't drain any other than through the dip tube. There's 16 oz of hops in there so it soaks up/hides a lot of wort. I think I lost a full gallon to hops alone!

Similar to when I made Pliny which had even more (23 oz):



When I took that Pliny picture it was immediately after only using the Hop Stopper to drain but you have to really slow it down at the end. Sometimes (such as last night) it was getting late and I was going to be short on wort, once there was only a few cups left I threw in my old Blichmann hop filter screen (you can see it here) and got out the last little bit fast. The Blichmann one is no longer available as it gets clogged / passes bits really easily since the holes are so big, but it works great to get that last pint or two out if you're in a hurry or going to be short. I tilt the kettle when I do this so the wort pools in one side.

Quote:
Do you skim the HOT break at the start of the boil?

A bit. Not much actually as I was distracted posting pictures (I shoot with a DSLR in RAW format and then getting them online is a 3-4 step manual process of developping with Phase One Pro, editing slightly with PhotoShop, then uploading). It's amazing how much extra work doing that adds!

Kal

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