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Electric Panel Element & PID

 
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djsoto



Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:07 am    Post subject: Electric Panel Element & PID Reply with quote


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Kal or Forum users... I would really appreciate for advise/help and would like to thank you in advance. I'll do my best to make sense out of this. My setup was down to the wire from Kal Electric Panel (30Amp). I did some small modifications but nothing else. I can say, Everything works perfect except my setup with PID and Elements.

Setup: I'm running "The Auber Instruments SYL-2352 PID controllers" with 4500 Watt element. (HLT Side). Please note: I'm not worrying about the Boil Element since I'm only using the HLT for now. I know for sure the temp proves are right on the spot, PID wiring looks great and everything seems good. Possible settings issue?

Steps: > Panel Power ON > Set Temp to 154F > Element Switch to HLT = HLT Element light goes ON, Element power is ON and HLT Temp on the rise.

The Glitch: HLT Temperature will rise pass 154 F, Element light will stay ON > PID "Out" will Go OFF > Element Light will continue ON > Temperature will rise pass 207F (I Manually shut-off Element Switch). Note: When temperature is close to 154F, PID "Out" light will go OFF/ON Several times and Element light will Stay ON.

The Temporary Solution: Technically not a solution, but it helps. Same "STEPS" once temperature is getting close to SET temperature (154F). I manually TURN HLT Element Switch OFF then ON > HLT Element will slow down before 154F and light will turn ON/OFF with the PID "out" light. It will rise to 154F but slowly pass SET temperature. The only difference when I manually reset (switch off/on) is that It will not stay 100% power the entire time and element will respond to PID "out" light. But the problem here is that it temperature will continue to rise way pass 154F until I manually switch OFF HLT Element.


Any idea what I'm doing wrong?


See picture attached... Oh BTW this was a tight fit on a 12x12x6 panel.

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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you dial in a temperature lower than the HLT and then turn on the HLT switch, what happens?

My guess is that the HLT SSR is always firing so the element is always on. Check the connection between the HLT SSR control +/- and your HLT PID.

You can even try disconnecting the cables between the PID and the SSR. Then it should never come on.

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the element is always stick on and ignores what the PID is telling it to do, it sounds like you've either wired something incorrectly or the SSR is stuck "closed" (defective).

Kal

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djsoto



Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crush wrote:
If you dial in a temperature lower than the HLT and then turn on the HLT switch, what happens?

My guess is that the HLT SSR is always firing so the element is always on. Check the connection between the HLT SSR control +/- and your HLT PID.

You can even try disconnecting the cables between the PID and the SSR. Then it should never come on.



When I dial temp lower than the HLT > Element still goes ON/OFF (Including the PID "Out" Light) and temp will rise. Example: Water temp was 90F > Set PIT temp to 80F = Element Light & PID "out" light flash on/off > Temp went up to 120F (Until I manually turn OFF switch).

When I disconnect the cable between the PID and SSR > Element light will stay OFF/ Temp will stay the same and PID "out" light will stay on (When i set temp higher than HLT temp).


Last edited by djsoto on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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djsoto



Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
If the element is always stick on and ignores what the PID is telling it to do, it sounds like you've either wired something incorrectly or the SSR is stuck "closed" (defective).

Kal


Thanks for reply Kal... I'm still trying to troubleshoot elements. How would I know if defected SSR?... I notice that SSR will respond to PID since it will go ON/OFF with the PID light "out". Hopefully I can get it in action soon. I appreciate all your Electric Brewery info and help.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally the fail closed. Ie: They're always on. If you disconnect a signal wire and the SSR is still closed, it's defective.

Kal

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TwoDogBrew



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Normally the fail closed. Ie: They're always on. If you disconnect a signal wire and the SSR is still closed, it's defective.

Kal


I believe my SSRs were this way right out of the box.. I tested each circuit as I completed and before I hooked up the PID control wire to SSR they were lighting the "Element on" light when the manual on/off switch on activating the contractor..

I am going to hook up element tomorrow with a test run with water..

Everything else is working ok , but still need to complete the volt and amp meter tests next.. I have DC supplies that will not drop below 14vdc no load. with 20vac input to the boards..

Here is a link to picks of the box wiring
https://plus.google.com/photos/108423930313055883312/albums/5837437514564241345?banner=pwa

EDIT: Hooked up elements with water in system. So when you put a load on the SSRs they operate normal and the indicator lights on elements work just fine..

Doing an auto tune on the PIDs now.. Everything is firing on and off just fine..

Mike and Kal.. what a fantastic control system.. Thanks again
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djsoto



Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... I seem to have it under control now. Brew my first batch and it was great!... Will do some minor tune here and there.

The fix?...Thumbs Up It's amazing the difference with "Auto tuning and FILT"http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup that's all i changed and was back on track. Brew on! Mug
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