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Trotsky Ale House Build 2.0
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Trotsky Ale House Build 2.0 Reply with quote


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Testimonial:

"In anything you do in life, business or not, you learn over time the difference between cost and value. The Electric Brewery provides quality materials and I know it is built to last. I do not want to keep replacing parts or upgrading equipment due to sticker shock. Kal provided an unbelievable write up (which is free), with pictures that clearly show what you are doing. I had zero DIY experiences before my build and following Kal's instructions I now have a top notch brewery and on top of that I finished a room in my house and was able to take quite a bit of the skills I learned in the build and applied it to finishing the room. Using Kal's extremely detailed instructions, you learn how the brewing process works and you are the expert on the equipment, so when something is wrong, you know how to fix it! In my mind, Kal's build is a build without competition." -Martin G., Cedar Rapids IA

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Hi All,

I've been dormant the last few months, busy with work, golfing and most of all brewing, but as the winter months come, I start brewing again!

Since my last build my wife and I have moved into a new home and sure enough there is an unfinished room that I will be building my new brewery in. Here was my last build thread:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25490&highlight=trotsky

I wasn't able to get complete pictures of my room that I'm building in, but caught a few with my phone and the latest pictures I have started using a great camera for! I'm in the process now of building the room as the equipment is already assembled so I will be documenting here. Most of the work will be done by me and just for those of you on the fence about building a brewery or doing any of this. I had zero experience with any of this stuff before my first brewery! The right tools help get the job done!

Let's get started!


I wanted to try to keep the concrete floor since its so durable, but I didn't want to leave it bare. My previous build I used Behr Semi- Transparent concrete stain and to be honest, it wasn't very durable. It started cracking in some places and after researching a second go around, water based stains don't seem to have a great track record (especially from the big box store).

So instead I tried Eagle Sealer Concrete Dye. I wanted to go with a orange look. I etched the floor (twice!), and when I went to do a test run it came out somewhat red, but when it dried it turned orange and I thought I had it all set. Well, here were the results:



I was pretty disappointed, especially after my preparation, and figured I would just go with it. I used Eagle Sealer's recommended sealer and when I came back the next day parts of the dye became flaky and crusty and I could practically chip it away. Most likely this was user error, but I read the directions time and time again. Oh well.

I was already planning on tiling the wall where the kettles will go and sink so I decided to take that tile and put it on the floor. Being a DIY'er but having zero experience and wanting a semi easy job. I went to Menards and bought some vinyl tile that is actually very surprising! It is groutable (which I did), and I snapped the chalk lines and went to tiling!

Here was a mock up of the design:



With tiling you want to snap chalk lines from the middle of the walls to get a cross hairs in the center of the room. You then start laying tile down without securing it to see where things will approxamately end up. For example. I wanted to have a full tile at the entrance and didn't care that it was a half tile in the back. You can move those cross hairs how you need to for your application.



I used 1/8" spacers.

And here is the tile with grout (Yes, you can see how messy I made it!)



You clean up the grout with windex with a soft scrub sponge and some rags to wipe away liquids.

I had a lot of pipes and duct work going through the space and I originally was going to do a drop ceiling, but then realized how low it would have came and didn't want build a soffit all the way around that space either, so that meant dry walling was out as well. After I was about to give up on what to do, I saw an example of someone who painted their ceiling black! So I decided to go this route too! (the old ale house had a bare ceiling, and it was the only thing I wish I could have changed.)

The electrician came in and wired all my outlets as well as the wiring for the 30amp service that will eventually come in. He also installed 6 canned lights in the ceiling which really make things pop!

And now, I introduce the new camera to the room!





There is a great storage space under the stairs where all my grains will go!





You will notice in the above picture the tile comes to a stop. I am going to be building a wall right where it ends to enclose the space and will put a large sliding door on the outside. The hardest part will be to secure it to the joists in between the ducts as space is tight. I also will have a small gap underneath the pipes that I will try to fill in as I don't want a lot of outside line bleeding in if I can help it. It isn't ideal since I'm not finishing the ceiling on both sides of the wall. Well see how it plays out!

Finally, I need to install a vent in that wall to allow combustion air to floor freely for the water heater and furnace.

On Kal's advice, I ordered a 6' hoot from fastkitchenhoods.com. Unbelievably, they could build it and ship it from Canada to Iowa for half the price that a few local people here told me they would do. It is scheduled to be delivered today! It wasn't cheap, but as I build this brewery versus the first one, I wanted to get components that are quality and built to last. The hood is certainly one of them!

I also bought on ebay this double bin stainless sink new for $315 shipped!



From the same people I also bought a pre-rinse faucet unit:



Here is my planned layout:



I will probably build a small counter space that has rollers in between the sink and the kettles near the electrical panel. Building codes say you have to have 30" of space in front of the panel (doesn't have to be centered on the panel, but most include the entire width of panel) and 3' of space in front of the panel. This will ensure proper access according to the codes.

I may spray paint that electrical box a silver color to match the rest of the stainless steel in the room. We'll see.

That's all I have for you right now. My mission today will be framing that wall and getting it secured!
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wubears71



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 278
Location: Webster Groves, MO

Drinking: Keg 1- Hefenweizen, Keg 2- Vanilla Scotch Porter, Keg 3-Munich Helles

Working on: Stinky IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet. I'm so jealous. I'm sitting in my brewery right now (the garage/woodworking shop) smoking a cigar and its cold. I cannot wait to have a pimp brewery space.
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what came in?



Unfortunately for me, they didn't install the hanging brackets. I have a message into them, hopefully for them to send me those brackets at the very least. That's ok though. I still have time to work through that.

I got the frame up and it was a tight fit! I had to actually move it about 1/2" from where I originally wanted it because for the life of me I couldn't get it to slide with the hammer and the wife yelling. It will work out great though!

On the ground:



It's up! It's surprisingly sturdy even without being secured in place and without a few supports I will add to connect it to the floor joists above.





I still haven't decided what I want to do about that opening under the stairs. I was thinking of making a door way there and making kind of a secret door there somehow. I need to make that decision soon as I want to go purchase the drywall and get started on that. Hopefully even this weekend if I can.

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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress seems to move a lot slower than what I plan for. I was thinking I could finish all the drywall today and I only got about half up. I rented this great drywall lifter from Menards for $12 for the first 4 hours, then $1.50 after that. I was able to get it before they closed last night and the clock stops when they are not open. I used this time to place the higher panels since the lower ones I can place myself.

I decided to use 4x10 panels, to keep seems to a minimum.














Coming up will be to finish the bottom layers of drywall. Then I need to drill my exhaust and make up air holes. The make up air will be between the joists. The exhaust I meant to leave an openning in the drywall, but will have to cut the spot I chose. I wasn't ready yet with the outside cover and silicone caulk to seal it up. This isnt the first time or will it be the last time that I miss a step. But it's not big deal since I haven't painted or mudded the drywall just yet.

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kellzey



Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 580
Location: Orlando, FL


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good. THanks for the progress threads. They are always fun to follow.
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KES



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditto, love to follow brewery builds Thumbs Up
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress has been slow as I picked up some sort of 24 hr virus that left me nearly 10lbs lighter after the fact! Today I'm still home from work, but able to walk around and start eating and drinking for the first time in nearly 36 hours.

Before I got sick I did install something in my house that is unrelated to the brewery but still very cool!

It's called the Nest.

It's a smart thermostat that does not require programming and learns over time what your schedule is and can be much more accurate than anything programmed and can help save energy bills! It also has mobile apps so you can be anywhere and adjust your homes thermostat.

Here is a youtube video on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TkhHgkBsg

(tried embedding it, but doesn't look like forum allows it)

Anyways, here are the pictures associated with the install:





Nest has great support and help on their website and all you do is type in what type of connections you have available and it will tell you if you can use their thermostat.





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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at a conference in February in San Diego. The creator of Nest was a guest speaker. Really cool device. The guy that developed it is the same guy responsible for the thumb wheel innovation on iPods! Too bad he didn't give a free Nest to all 5,500 in the conference hall that day!
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="-MG-"]Progress has been slow as I picked up some sort of 24 hr virus that left me nearly 10lbs lighter after the fact! Today I'm still home from work, but able to walk around and start eating and drinking for the first time in nearly 36 hours.

Before I got sick I did install something in my house that is unrelated to the brewery but still very cool!

It's called the Nest.

It's a smart thermostat that does not require programming and learns over time what your schedule is and can be much more accurate than anything programmed and can help save energy bills! It also has mobile apps so you can be anywhere and adjust your homes thermostat.

Here is a youtube video on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TkhHgkBsg

(tried embedding it, but doesn't look like forum allows it)

Anyways, here are the pictures associated with the install:


Nest has great support and help on their website and all you do is type in what type of connections you have available and it will tell you if you can use their thermostat.



I like this thing a lot, when the 2nd generation Nest can be had @ $200 delivered I'm jumping on it.

I too have the flu bug, took two weeks vacation and BAM, sick as a dog unable do do anything for two and a half days. I felt better yesterday so I replaced both upper control arms on my truck. The thing that sucks is I very rarely ever get sick and I had a ton to stuff I wanted to get done, Oh well, it'll get done when it gets done. Peace, Castermmt

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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The holiday season always puts progress to a snail pace, but I've made some progress since.

The one thing I haven't done a good job of is planning everything out and something I'm completing are out of order, but when the walls haven't been painted yet and since I haven't tiled the brew kettle wall, that's ok.

I completed drywall panel installation and have about two coats of mud on so far. I decided now was a good time as ever to start planning how the hood will be hung and measuring heights for how it will sit. Thanks to Kal's new build I had some good bench marks for how to hang the hood and will be following a similar path with a long threaded rod and I noticed from his build the framing above the hood is not what supports the hood, rather it looks like blocking above in the joists. Which makes a lot of sense to me, because that is easier to make sure it structurally sound versus the frame around the hood.

I got a start on it tonight, but first I had to cut about 9" off some extra heating vent ducts:



The part I cut off is on the ladder at the bottom of the picture.

I recapped it in this picture and used lots of HVAC tape to make sure it has a good seal.



You'll notice right away I'm not a very tiddy builder and create lots of mess. You'll see a 6x9 hole in the picture below. My cable comes into the house right in this location and a splitter is right there. I wanted to make sure it could still be accessed for some reason, so I installed a drywall access door similar to what Kal had. While not as pretty as his, they function just the same:


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4196hA%2B9ShL._SL500_AA300_.jpg






And here is a close up of the start of the framing above the hood which will be drywalled and have an access panel on both sides to allow access to the fan and hanging brackets if need be.


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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completed build on the framing and blocking between joists for the hood installation. I had to move the frame about 3" to the left due to a pvc pipe that was partially in the way of a elbow I would need for the exhaust from the top of the hood.

I stopped at Lowe's and picked up a 6" intake and exhaust, they were I believe around $9 each.

I am not a fan of how big the 'screen' is, and plan to go by some much smaller screen and get it installed.



Everything starts with the right tool:



I drilled a pilot hole first so I could drill from both sides. Since my house has vinyl siding, I made sure to gently cut from the outside first to get a clean cut and not tear up the siding.





Unfortunately for me, my tool was not up to the job and looks like I fried it. I bought it on amazon recently and they have a great return policy and will be getting with them.



Fortunately for me, I had a corded drill on hand to finish the job.



I used silicone to seal the edges of this and on the inside I used a spray sealer/foam insulation to also seal the hole and then I put the previous insulation back in place.



I haven't decided what I will do about a dampener if anything. It's easily out of reach and I plan to put my fridge in this corner.



The flash on the camera makes my insulation stand out and with the ceiling lights its fairly hard to see. I also haven't figured out what to do about that. A friend mentioned to me that they make pre-cut floor joist panels that can fill in these spots. I haven't been able to locate anything.

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You let the mystical blue smoke out of the drill.

Looking sharp man! Going to enjoy following this thread.
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stopped by Sam's club today, because during my research for a stainless steel table I discovered this:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/work-table-with-stainless-steel-top-49/145625.ip?navAction=

If you read the reviews on it, they are all very positive except for the fact that many of these tables come with dents from shipping despite the box looking great. The table top itself isn't extremely heavy duty grade stainless. I had a gift card and drove over to my local Sam's Club who had the table in stock and while the packaging makes it difficult, I had an employee help me and we opened up the box and inspected the table to make sure it didn't have any dents. I was able to put it together in less than 10 minutes, no tool required.

I also like it because the lower shelf is adjustable in height and I have to clear the sump pump pipes and this will allow me to have that bottom shelf.



I drilled the exhaust hole, and surprisingly the wood there was about 1/4 the thickness of what I saw with the intake! Needless to say, I was able to cut through in about 10 seconds. I didn't take many pictures since I already showed how to cut the hole for the intake and this was no different. I got the fan installed and it will fit perfect! the bottom of the fan looks to have just about 2" of room from top of the hood.





I spent a good amount of time after this sanding the drywall. I also dropped off my hood today to get the hanging brackets welded and should be getting that back tomorrow.

Tomorrow I'll most likely begin tiling the wall that will hold the kettles and sink.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9504
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, English IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison

Working on: Kölsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-MG- wrote:
Thanks to Kal's new build I had some good bench marks for how to hang the hood and will be following a similar path with a long threaded rod and I noticed from his build the framing above the hood is not what supports the hood, rather it looks like blocking above in the joists. Which makes a lot of sense to me, because that is easier to make sure it structurally sound versus the frame around the hood.

Exactly right. Hang something this big from joists, not from framing within the room. That's what I did in the new brewery.

Nice work!

Kal

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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primed the wall for my tile placement and let the dry after 2 coats. In the meantime, I decided I should get to finish framing that door under the stairs. I most likely will put another sliding door idea here as well.



This space will work great for storing my grains and kegs, etc.

While I was at the hardware store, I saw this great looking garage storage unit, and the dimensions would fit great underneath one of my stainless tables. I may buy it. I'll find a picture and get it on here to show. One thing I learned from my previous room build is you can never have enough storage shelves or space. My brew counter was full of junk all the time.


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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accomplished quite a bit this weekend.

First, I tiled the brew kettle wall with the same stuff that is on the floor. I primed the wall first with a vinyl tile self stick primer that was recommended. I was a little unhappy to come back the next day to see a few tiles had actually come loose. A little super glue and a few hours later the tiles were sitting pretty.



And here is the whole wall tiled out without grout:



And you can't really tell a difference with grout:



The grout will also help keep the tiles in place. I'm not too worried about cracking grout because the wall itself isn't moving, it was just possibly some dust on a spot or two from drywall. We'll see in a year if it will come back to bite me.

I did end up going to Menard's for that cabinet to go underneath my stainless table. I thought they were sold out til I found either an old version or an opened box for $99! It looks just like what I was wanting!



Finally, I went to a store called Restore. It's a place people donate old constructions materials or extra materials they had sitting around. Sometimes you can find really nice items there.

I bought paint for the room that was $12, the paint itself is 80% recycled paint from a company called amazon paint. They have an interesting concept and guarantee their product. If you are ok with limited selection of colors, they are suppose to be no different than the big boys.

I did however find my hanging doors that will be on a rail system:



The door with windows will be on the entrance and I will sand it down and stain it. The solid color door will also be sanded and put on a rail system for the storage area underneath the stairs. Which reminds me, I also completed drywalling and started the mudding for it:



I found a rail system that is suppose to be used for closets that was $13 for a 6' rail and components that is meant to connect under a frame. I decided to just used a 2x2 and will connect it underneath that. It was well worth the savings, as the kit was $59 for one that isn't mounted under a frame like many people have in their closets.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, English IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison

Working on: Kölsch


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-MG- wrote:
First, I tiled the brew kettle wall with the same stuff that is on the floor. I primed the wall first with a vinyl tile self stick primer that was recommended. I was a little unhappy to come back the next day to see a few tiles had actually come loose. A little super glue and a few hours later the tiles were sitting pretty.


How did you tile?

I don't see any mortar (adhesive) ahead of where you're working. Normally you'd spread some and than back trowel it to create groves and then push the tiles on firmly. I don't see any adhesive ahead of where you're working so I want to make sure you used some.

Normally people work from the bottom up too so that they don't sag. (I've never seen side to side done). If you start higher than the floor, sometimes a starter strip is temporarily screwed/nailed to the wall to hold things in place so that the first row doesn't sag.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Yy1fCJcUk

Kal

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-MG- wrote:
I primed the wall first with a vinyl tile self stick primer that was recommended. I was a little unhappy to come back the next day to see a few tiles had actually come loose. A little super glue and a few hours later the tiles were sitting pretty.


Kal,
It looks like it was a "stick-on" type tile.
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
-MG- wrote:
I primed the wall first with a vinyl tile self stick primer that was recommended. I was a little unhappy to come back the next day to see a few tiles had actually come loose. A little super glue and a few hours later the tiles were sitting pretty.


Kal,
It looks like it was a "stick-on" type tile.


Correct. It's actually self stick vinyl tile. No mortar needed for it. The material is surprisingly good quality. My tile layout may be at fault. I used the same method as the floor. Measured the wall to find the exact center of the wall, snapped a chalk line and started tiling off of that to make sure things were straight. In the picture you can't see the chalk lines. Then I would work in sections like You see here.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9504
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, English IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison

Working on: Kölsch


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! Ok. I've never heard of self-stick tiles. Interesting. Sorry for speed-reading!

Kal

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