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rcrabb22
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 462 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: MLT return silicon hose |
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I use a Kal clone system and up to this point I have never done a fly or continuous sparge. Kal uses a a 5ft silicon tube wort return and sparge water. My silicon hose is about 2 ft long. I really hate to ask this question but does size matter?
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose |
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rcrabb22 wrote: | does size matter? |
Ehemm...
Yes...
You don't want the end to plunge into the grain bed. I was mashing with one of my hoses that had a SS cam lock on it and I thought it was long enough. It wasn't. The short tube especially combined with the weight of the camlock fitting would work it's way down into the grain and was probably channeling a bit.
You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains.
This last weekend was my first time to use a newer longer hose... It worked well...
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KES
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 472 Location: Iowa
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Does size matter? Well, length over size matters.
_________________ “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” B. Franklin
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose |
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huaco wrote: | You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains. |
Yep. This is the reason why I went with the length I did. I looked at other setups like Sabco to see how they did it and used about the same length. You can use shorter if you use some sort of floating device. Blichmann does this with the hose on their auto-sparge arm. It is pretty short but then has some sort of foam float device on the end. I didn't want the floating foam thing in my beer because I want to limit the use of plastics. It would also make cleaning a bit harder and it would probably tear/break over the long run.
Kal
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^^
Adjusting that thing looks to be a real PITA to use. Adjust the arm to the correct height. Hope it maintains... Just seems gratuitous compared to the simplicity of laying a hose down on the grains!
I did realize something real quick though. while doughing in, I removed the hose from the MLT and propped it up on a hook on the wall above my MLT. Then, I started the mash recirc through the HERMS coil. ha! Didn't take me long to shut that pump down! Placed the return hose where it needed to be (on top of the grains) turned my pump back on and started mashing. SPLASH happens! Glad I sealed up the panel pretty well. This time it didn't get wet, but it sure could...
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KES
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 472 Location: Iowa
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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+1 huaco. The hose is so much simpler.
_________________ “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” B. Franklin
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rcrabb22
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 462 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input. I will replace mine with a longer section of silicon tubing. Good thing I have spare tubing in my "parts" inventory.
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wubears71
Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Posts: 278 Location: Webster Groves, MO
Drinking: Keg 1- Hefenweizen, Keg 2- Vanilla Scotch Porter, Keg 3-Munich Helles
Working on: Stinky IPA
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose |
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kal wrote: | huaco wrote: | You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains. |
Yep. This is the reason why I went with the length I did. I looked at other setups like Sabco to see how they did it and used about the same length. You can use shorter if you use some sort of floating device. Blichmann does this with the hose on their auto-sparge arm. It is pretty short but then has some sort of foam float device on the end. I didn't want the floating foam thing in my beer because I want to limit the use of plastics. It would also make cleaning a bit harder and it would probably tear/break over the long run.
Kal |
I actually have the Auto sparge and pulled it out this week. Th issue is that it restricts flow through the HERMS way too much. However, it does a fabulous job maintaining constant level during sparging. I also had to get a longer threaded rod as the stock one comes no where near the grain bed on a 10 gallon batch even with a big grain bill.
I am actually going to add another valve on the other side of the kettle and install the auto sparge so I can use it while sparging. I will basically bypass it by using the Kal setup while recirculating through the HERMS. I figure since I already have it I will use it but looking back I would not have bought it. It was purchased before I decided to go full electric.
_________________ I am 275 lbs of chiseled half fat and half muscle.
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wubears71
Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Posts: 278 Location: Webster Groves, MO
Drinking: Keg 1- Hefenweizen, Keg 2- Vanilla Scotch Porter, Keg 3-Munich Helles
Working on: Stinky IPA
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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By the way the Blichmann Auto Sparge now uses a large, stainless steel hollow floating ball instead of the black plastic thingie.
_________________ I am 275 lbs of chiseled half fat and half muscle.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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CapnBry
Joined: 20 Oct 2012 Posts: 53 Location: Tampa, FL
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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To add another point to this already solved thread, I started with a shorter hose too. I thought "Why does it need to go all the way down? It should just need to go to the top of the grain". As others have pointed out, if your hose isn't long enough to lay down on the grain to spread the weight, it just digs into the grain bed and channels during sparge.
I also had issues during recirculation with the shorter tube, which would direct most of the force of the return fluid in a downward direction, and cause it to not fully circulate around the mash like you see in Kal's video. I'd get a small pocket of mash circulation then the rest would just be stagnant and the temperature would vary from one side to the other. I thought there was just too much flow restriction in my coil, but when I swapped the return tubing for a piece that had enough to lay down on the bottom of the mash tun, it fully circulated.
During my sparge I use one of those stainless fold-out vegetable steamers from the kitchen and lay it on top of the grain then put the sparge hose in the loop in the middle. I'm not sure that's necessary but I feel better about the way it spreads the flow and holds the tubing right in the middle.
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I don't bother my return hose during sparge... I just start pumping in Hot Liquor. Now, at a MUCH slower rate than I recirculated the mash with, mind you...
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Kevin59
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Posts: 1047 Location: Fort Collins, CO
Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale
Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA
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-MG-
Joined: 05 Dec 2011 Posts: 203
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I kind of like the idea of it floating... That way you would feel better about channeling.
Might be just over engineering, dunno.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Kevin59
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Posts: 1047 Location: Fort Collins, CO
Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale
Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I put the cork back about 5-6" from the end of the hose, so the hose opening sits partially submerged. No aeration at all...
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omega697
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 Posts: 8
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've been having issues with channeling, I think. When I'm done with mash and start the sparge, the force of the swirling liquid has pushed the grain over to one side, and it's almost all the way down to the false bottom on the side right by the hose output. I also have been getting fairly low efficiency (75%?). Not sure what's up with that. I crush a reasonable size (.043"), I sparge slowly, I modify my mash pH (though not my sparge pH, will try that next). Hard for me not to believe that the very non-flat grain bed isn't having an effect.
I'm going to put a perforated pizza baking sheet in the MLT over the grain but under the return hose next time and see if that helps at all.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: |
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omega697: What sort of kettles/false bottom are you using?
When you say you sparge slowly, how slow do you mean? ie: How long to sparge for a X gallons in the boil kettle?
I do get some dips and holes in the mash bed where the hose lies, but if you have a good setup it shouldn't matter.
It doesn't sound normal if you have hole all the way down the false bottom however. How big are the kettles? What batch size are you brewing? How full is your MLT usually? Got any pictures?
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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