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FAQ: Adapting for a back to back setup
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Islandbrewer



Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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No problem, that's understandable and expected. I'm sure we'll be able to stare at the schematics long enough to figure it out!

Thanks for the reply,
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Master



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 162
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Liquid Schwartz Schwarzbier, Stinky Porter, Spiced Apple Cider

Working on: AbbyNormal Glutton Free Framboise Lambic, Ich Bin Ein Berliner Weisse, Pineapple Cider


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to build my 50A back to back tomorrow, enough parts are now here to do something useful with them.

Changes from the "Standard" (I bought a precut 30A box before I figured I have the power to do BTB);.

-Red alarm light omitted, reset button in it's location
-Single cord, with a 3/4" cable grip in a plate cover cut to make the hole for the 14L-30 flanged plug work.
-Slightly different Volt/Amp meter and a Frequency meter (we tend to have drooping frequency in advance of brownout in summer here)
-Auber JSL-73 timer, could not source an Omega without a heinous lead time

Quick question, where 1/8" and 3/16" Stove bolts are specified, I'm using I think #8 and #6 Machine screws, as those sizes just don't exist here.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master wrote:
Quick question, where 1/8" and 3/16" Stove bolts are specified, I'm using I think #8 and #6 Machine screws, as those sizes just don't exist here.

Sure. should be fine. Some of the screw sizes I recommended are oversized/overkill. Good luck with the build.

Kal

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gleoncavallo



Joined: 11 Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Chapel Hill, NC


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this kit! Easy to set-up and modify (second timer & 3rd pump). I cannot wait to use.

When testing/calibrating the PIDs controlling the heating elements I blew the fuses to that were provided with the kit - 4x 25A glass fuses. The write specifies 4x 30A glass fuses. I have replaced with 30A and all is working as expected.

Please confirm the 30A glass fuse is the correct fuse spec to use for the two heating elements.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30A is the correct spec.

Kal

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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had alot of trouble locating 30A fuse holders. The ones I did find used spade terminal and I just didn't trust them. I ended up purchasing 30A DIN mounted breakers from http://www.ebrewsupply.com/30a-double-pole-breaker/

Last edited by wscottcross on Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Master



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 162
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Liquid Schwartz Schwarzbier, Stinky Porter, Spiced Apple Cider

Working on: AbbyNormal Glutton Free Framboise Lambic, Ich Bin Ein Berliner Weisse, Pineapple Cider


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30A without spades was also a hard one to find here.

I ended up getting some surplus ones off of Ebay. I was about to go the DIN Breaker route when I found them.
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gleoncavallo



Joined: 11 Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Chapel Hill, NC


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross wrote:
I had alot of trouble locating 30A fuse holders. The ones I did find used spade terminal and I just didn't trust them. I ended up purchasing 30A DIN mounted breakers from http://www.ebrewsupply.com/30a-double-pole-breaker/


Thank you all for the quick and helpful replies.

@ wscottcross - 2x 30A DIN mounted breakers ordered, this will work great as I had replaced the hot & neutral bus with a din solution and have room on the rail.

I am at a bit of a standstill since for unknown reasons the power supply is now DOA. Power at the sub-panel and breaker - no power through the cord to b2b box. Cord was electrician installed - I have a call in for a service appt.
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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gleoncavallo wrote:
wscottcross wrote:
I had alot of trouble locating 30A fuse holders. The ones I did find used spade terminal and I just didn't trust them. I ended up purchasing 30A DIN mounted breakers from http://www.ebrewsupply.com/30a-double-pole-breaker/


Thank you all for the quick and helpful replies.

@ wscottcross - 2x 30A DIN mounted breakers ordered, this will work great as I had replaced the hot & neutral bus with a din solution and have room on the rail.

I am at a bit of a standstill since for unknown reasons the power supply is now DOA. Power at the sub-panel and breaker - no power through the cord to b2b box. Cord was electrician installed - I have a call in for a service appt.


What DIN terminal blocks are you using?
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gleoncavallo



Joined: 11 Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Chapel Hill, NC


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dins from Auber.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46

After building the electric b2b set-up, I built another panel for burner control (on/off) with many components sourced from Auber.
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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I ever build another control panel, I'll definitely get most of the stuff from them. I like the prepunched enclosures they have. It wouldn't have worked for my B2B 50A setup, but even the base enclosure with the heatsink would have helped. I will definitely go all DIN mounted next time. I have a habit of changing things as I go and DIN makes that easy.
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Master



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 162
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Liquid Schwartz Schwarzbier, Stinky Porter, Spiced Apple Cider

Working on: AbbyNormal Glutton Free Framboise Lambic, Ich Bin Ein Berliner Weisse, Pineapple Cider


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually made their prepunched enclosure work with 50A B2B.

I'm punching one more hole under the alarm buzzer, and in-line with the row of element switches and element on lights.

So basically, Boil element On/Off is over the Right PID, Boil Element ON light is over the timer, HLT is over left PID, and HLT element on is over center PID. Reset button is in new hole. I contemplated just omitting the alarm light, but it's not that hard to make one hole. The Auber boxes don't have the cable way JB welded onto the box, it's a solid box, but otherwise identical to Kai's one.

Auber has been great to me so far.. So of course now I'm looking at putting other things they have controllers for together, like a controller for my crawlspace ventilation to pull in cool outside air, and my attic fans to run with it's cooler outside than in the attic.
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wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using a single Volts/Amps meter so the prepunched panel doesn't really work for that. I do like that it has no cable entry plate and the heatsink is premounted. Having it primed black is also a nice feature since pretty much everyone is repainting them anyway. Auber is on my short list of suppliers.
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Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
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Master



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 162
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Liquid Schwartz Schwarzbier, Stinky Porter, Spiced Apple Cider

Working on: AbbyNormal Glutton Free Framboise Lambic, Ich Bin Ein Berliner Weisse, Pineapple Cider


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have the combo V/A meter from Auber.

This is what I put in the second hole:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CHFO4DK/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00CHFO4DK&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=OYRCYDQYHLJLADNB

Frequency meter, we often get brown out in the summer, and the frequency starts dropping slightly before it they drop the voltage to keep the grid sync.
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barleyboy



Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fuse holder between 30A contactors and elements melted! This was my first test run on the new controller. The boil element stopped working so had to switch it to the hlt plug.

Has anyone had their holders melt. it was suppose to be rated for 30A 300V.

Did I do something wrong?



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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@barleyboy: Is this from a kits you purchased from us? If yes, email us at SpikeInnovations@TheElectricBrewery.com with your original order information (or just the name or email address you used when ordering) along with your address and we'll get something better for you.

Kal

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barleyboy



Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No kit this was a just built off the plans. Think its just crappy holders?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely, or a loose connection which in turn caused overheating and melted the connection points. I recommend connectors you can screw down instead of friction fit like you used.

Kal

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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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grimyhobosack



Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the 110V versions of the 25A and 63A DIN rail contactors from Auber work for driving the 4,500W elements and main power respectively? My math puts a 4,500 Watt @ 240V heating element at 18.75A, so using that and dropping the fuses to 25A seems like it would be fine. The specs list "Rated Operational Voltage (Ue) ~: 230V" and "AC-7a (for slightly inductive loads) Operational power rating: 4kw". I think both of those specs are fine, but wanted to double check with people who know more than me.

Other thought I had was if the 63A contactor had large enough inputs for 6AWG wire.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth you should not use undersized contactors or relays on the assumption that someone will only use 4500W elements. I suggest building per the design so that 5500W elements can also be used.

You can always go larger however. Such as using a 63A contactor for where a 50A contactor is recommend. Good luck!
Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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