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Basement Layout Help for Brewery and Bar
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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Basement Layout Help for Brewery and Bar Reply with quote


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Hello,

I was hoping to get some feedback from others before I start framing some walls in my basement for my electric brewery. I have a large mechanical/storage area in the basement that I would like to convert to living space, a bar, and the brewery.

I put together a rough mock-up on top of my lower level blueprint. It is pretty close to scale.

The room for the brewery is a little tight, but I should be able to make it all work. I don't have enough room for a door to swing inward, so I was thinking a sliding barn door. My only concern with that is for a future owner. I'm not sure what they would use this space for and a sliding barn door there might not be ideal. I don't have any plans to move any time soon, but I would like to make sure all the changes I make are sensible. I could have the door swing out or not have a door at all.

My next biggest issue/question mark is the bar layout. I am hoping others here have some experience with doing bars in their basement and can determine if my layout makes sense or if something would work better. I don't want to take up too much space from the rest of the room, but I also want the bar to be large enough and functional.

Thanks in advance, and let me know if there are any questions on my mock up. I know it's a bit messy with the blueprint behind it, but I wanted to mock it up as close to scale as possible.



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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the forum!

It's hard to comment on your diagram as while you've indicated the size of some of the items you're including, the space between them is unknown. Reason I ask because designers tend to go with certain minimum spaces for flow and certain areas.

Is there a scale? Is it to scale? If it's to scale it certainly seems reasonable! Without knowing what you want for the couches / TV area it's hard to comment if the area's large enough. (Also not sure what the area size is).

Cheers!

Kal

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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Kal! I have been following your site for 5 years or so, and I've finally decided to take the plunge. I consider your basement to be what dreams are made of, so I greatly appreciate any feedback or advice you have.

Good points, and I will update my diagram. It is approximately to scale. I didn't think to post the room dimensions as I was thinking it is on the document, but I covered most of them up. I also am not sure what we want for the seating/entertainment area, so I just put a box there to designate it. I'll check on the size. I'd love your feedback after I add more detail to the drawing.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good! Looking forward to reviewing again and while I'm no designer I'll certainly give my comments!

Kal

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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an updated version. I tried to clean it up a bit so that it was easier to read, and I added some dimensions of the rooms and distances.

I am liking this. I'm still not sure on the bar though. I originally wanted it similar to yours, but I'm not sure if I have enough space.



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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I forgot to list the length of the bar back. I think it's just under 60"
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok! I did some measuring of what I have to get some context for spaces and comparing to yours, it looks like you've got a really nice space here - well thought out! Nicely don.

One thing to keep in mind is where your drain stacks are now. Remember that you're going to have to tie your outgoing grey water to those. I'm assuming your 24" brewery sink is going to be fine given that it's on the opposite side of an existing bathroom / bathroom rough in so the stack is probably not far. The other you'll want to drain from is the bar sink. Remember that there are rise/run rules for drain lines. You need to drop 1" every foot run I believe, but check your local code.

Getting water and electricity to anywhere is never a problem, especially if you don't have a finished ceiling and the space isn't finished yet. So no concerns there. It's more about the drains and where existing stacks are. That said, you can certainly do anything if you're wiling to break concrete floor to tie in to existing drains.

Good luck!

Kal

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Jerz



Joined: 17 Nov 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Canton, Georgia

Drinking: Electric Hop Candy, Brown Porter, Blonde Stout, Kolsch

Working on: Belgian Dubbel


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Fermenation and temp control? Carbonation Chest Freezer? Keg Storage? Grain Storage? Ventilation? Canning station? Refrigerator? OK... kindof kidding but I'm just seeing what happened to me... things kept snowballing. I went from planning a small area for a brewery with a bar and now I've scrapped the bar and just put a table in the middle of the room... that could change tomorrow though... lol... I even have a chest freezer for storing spent grains (used to use the chest freezer for fermention control when I used the ss brewbuckets) and freeze the spent grains in silicone pound cake moulds so I can give away to people with chickens in case they can't come by the house on brew days (I get free eggs in return).

A few unitanks along that stair wall would look pretty good to me.

Good luck!! I ultimately decided to buy more gear instead of finishing the basement... I'll eventually get to the sheetrock, ceramic tile, and ceiling but for right now... I'm enjoying all of the gear to make beer how I want to. My father in law says the wood studs and plastic tote that I use for ventilation give the basement a "speak easy" kind of feel... Cheers!

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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a ton! Would you mind sharing the dimensions of your bar? I'm mostly curious about the distance you have between the back and front as well as the width of the bar top, the lower bar, and the overall width of both when factoring in the overhang. I did a little research, and there doesn't really seem to be set standards though it looks like 24" lower and 16-20" bar top are fairly common. Did you use any good resources that you'd recommend when planning your bar? I'll review your build notes for anything you may have added in there.

Good thoughts on the drains. The brewery sink is good to go as the drain pipe from the bathroom rough-in is almost directly behind it. The bar sink is more of a challenge. There is a waste stack around the corner in the brewery area. I really don't want to move it, but I measured again, and I won't be able to fit the 72" table as planned. I'll have to go to 60" which I'm okay with. I'll also need to bulk out a cavity for the drain to the sink though as I'm guessing the drain pipe can't go into the exterior wall even though it's under ground. Maybe I'll have a plumber take a look and give me my options. Breaking up the concrete might be what I'll have to do.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoundsLikeLife wrote:
Would you mind sharing the dimensions of your bar? I'm mostly curious about the distance you have between the back and front as well as the width of the bar top, the lower bar, and the overall width of both when factoring in the overhang. I did a little research, and there doesn't really seem to be set standards though it looks like 24" lower and 16-20" bar top are fairly common.


These 2 pictures of my bar can be used for context:





Top (white) bar is 14x85".
Bottom (grey) front bar at the stool side is also 14x85". As you can see there's some overlap. It's only about 1".
Bottom (grey) back bar where the sink is is 25x85".
The gap where you stand between the bottom bars is 30".
Where the taps are is 16" deep.

SoundsLikeLife wrote:
Did you use any good resources that you'd recommend when planning your bar? I'll review your build notes for anything you may have added in there.

I hired a pro to design/build everything as I frankly had no idea to how approach this basement. Wink My wife and I knew exactly what items we wanted and how they'd generally be but not gory details. We put together a ~50 page "ideas" scrapbook with pictures showing the style and types of things we wanted. We then spent months tryingto figure out a layout that worked at a high level (even though we knew we weren't going to built it ourselves) but never were able to come up with something we found 'usable'. We couldn't make the parts fits. I never would have come up with some of the ideas they did. Our basement had a lot more things than yours of course - we were starting from scratch on a completely unfinished basement.

SoundsLikeLife wrote:
I'll also need to bulk out a cavity for the drain to the sink though as I'm guessing the drain pipe can't go into the exterior wall even though it's under ground. Maybe I'll have a plumber take a look and give me my options.

That's the best solution. You might be surprised what's possible. My brewery sink drain goes on the outside wall all the way to where the stack is (near the bar beer taps) and it was all done to code and inspected. Code varies of course from location to location so best to confirm/ask.

Good luck!

Kal

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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerz wrote:
What about Fermenation and temp control? Carbonation Chest Freezer? Keg Storage? Grain Storage? Ventilation? Canning station? Refrigerator? OK... kindof kidding but I'm just seeing what happened to me... things kept snowballing. I went from planning a small area for a brewery with a bar and now I've scrapped the bar and just put a table in the middle of the room... that could change tomorrow though... lol... I even have a chest freezer for storing spent grains (used to use the chest freezer for fermention control when I used the ss brewbuckets) and freeze the spent grains in silicone pound cake moulds so I can give away to people with chickens in case they can't come by the house on brew days (I get free eggs in return).

A few unitanks along that stair wall would look pretty good to me.

Good luck!! I ultimately decided to buy more gear instead of finishing the basement... I'll eventually get to the sheetrock, ceramic tile, and ceiling but for right now... I'm enjoying all of the gear to make beer how I want to. My father in law says the wood studs and plastic tote that I use for ventilation give the basement a "speak easy" kind of feel... Cheers!


Ha, gotta love it. I'm feeling that snowball effect for sure. I do have ventilation underway. I had a local company fabricate a vent hood that's currently sitting lonely in my basement waiting for action. For fermentation, I was planning on beverage centers under the table. I do also have room for a full size refrigerator of I want to do kegs, but I think that will be a future project. I'll try to build the bar in a way that I could fairly easily add tap lines. Grain storage is a good question. Probably on the shelf in sealed buckets.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And more importantly, don't forget to order your Electric Brewery panel and ancillary equipment! Wink

See: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/

Kal

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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
And more importantly, don't forget to order your Electric Brewery panel and ancillary equipment! Wink

See: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/

Kal


You can count on that! I've been drooling over your page for years. I plan on purchasing everything you offer pre-assembled as I have enough projects on my hands right now.

Also, thank you SO much on the bar details. That helps me a ton. I should get some professional quotes on the bar area as I also have no idea what I'm doing in that department.
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Kazumichan



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 177
Location: Cincinnati Ohio area

Working on: Belgium golden, Dubbel, and imperial red


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed two things with your drawings:

First, would be the wall that you are hiding your HVAC system with. At some point in time you or someone will have to get around the system to work on it. It seems to be just a small gap around it that you are planning on leaving. I would consider angling from the short wall behind the hvac system (that you have in red) over to the existing wall, and then placing the door in that angled wall.

Second, not sure if this is a typo or not but you have the pocket door listed as 3'4". It does not look like you have enough wall to have that large of door slide back into.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoundsLikeLife wrote:
You can count on that! I've been drooling over your page for years. I plan on purchasing everything you offer pre-assembled as I have enough projects on my hands right now.

We look forward to building for you and helping you achieve beer nirvana!

SoundsLikeLife wrote:
Also, thank you SO much on the bar details. That helps me a ton. I should get some professional quotes on the bar area as I also have no idea what I'm doing in that department.

You're welcome!

Kazumichan wrote:
First, would be the wall that you are hiding your HVAC system with. At some point in time you or someone will have to get around the system to work on it.

I'm assuming HVAC means the furnace, with an AC. Like Kazumichan mentions, make sure you don't need to get into the sides that now have walls very close. Odds are you will need to get into one of thse sides. An example would be the heat exchanger from the AC. Don't put a wall close to anything where equipment goes in or out of the venting where someone in the future will need access. You may be able to build close on a few of the sides, but with 3 walls close it seems the odds are against that being serviceable in the future. Double check that.

In fact the same goes with everything, including door widths. I know our design/build company wanted certain door widths and heights for some areas that were bigger than others because of what they know will eventually have to go in or out (like a furnace, hot water tank, freezer, fridge, whatever). I remember sitting down with them during the design phase and explaining what sort of equipment I'd eventually have in the brewery (the one room they didn't really have much experience with). They wanted to make sure the door and all paths to that room would accommodate whatever I wanted to get in there.

Kal

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KB



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 232
Location: Manassas, VA

Drinking: Blackberry Wheat, Fuller's London Pride, Hazelnut Brown Ale, Peach Mead, Pear Hard Cider, Strawberry Wheat, Toasted Blonde Ale.

Working on: Fuller's ESB


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to nit pick, but really want the brewery on the other side/wall of the bathroom?
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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kazumichan wrote:
I noticed two things with your drawings:

First, would be the wall that you are hiding your HVAC system with. At some point in time you or someone will have to get around the system to work on it. It seems to be just a small gap around it that you are planning on leaving. I would consider angling from the short wall behind the hvac system (that you have in red) over to the existing wall, and then placing the door in that angled wall.

Second, not sure if this is a typo or not but you have the pocket door listed as 3'4". It does not look like you have enough wall to have that large of door slide back into.


Thanks for the feedback. I've gone back and forth in my mind with angling the wall there or doing it like I mocked it up. I didn't want to jut into the living space too much, but now that I have mocked up, I do think an angled wall there would look fine. For what it's worth, I did read the user manual on the furnace, and it said a minimum of 3" on the non-service sides. The front faces a long hall that goes to another storage area, so there would be enough room to service or remove the furnace, but angling the wall might be better.

Good eye on the pocket door. The 3'4" is actually the length of that stretch of wall. I didn't list the door size, but it's a 28" pocket door. Smaller than any other door in my house, but it's sufficient as a standard door is on the other side.
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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

I'm assuming HVAC means the furnace, with an AC. Like Kazumichan mentions, make sure you don't need to get into the sides that now have walls very close. Odds are you will need to get into one of thse sides. An example would be the heat exchanger from the AC. Don't put a wall close to anything where equipment goes in or out of the venting where someone in the future will need access. You may be able to build close on a few of the sides, but with 3 walls close it seems the odds are against that being serviceable in the future. Double check that.

In fact the same goes with everything, including door widths. I know our design/build company wanted certain door widths and heights for some areas that were bigger than others because of what they know will eventually have to go in or out (like a furnace, hot water tank, freezer, fridge, whatever). I remember sitting down with them during the design phase and explaining what sort of equipment I'd eventually have in the brewery (the one room they didn't really have much experience with). They wanted to make sure the door and all paths to that room would accommodate whatever I wanted to get in there.

Kal


Yes, that's the furnace there. I will check with the company that did all our heating and cooling and see what they say. The manual does say 3" minimum other than the front, but they may tell me to not do that. That part of my drawing isn't to scale, so I think I'm around 6" on the back and about a foot on the side if I put the wall exactly where I mocked it up.. That's still really tight though. Obviously, you wouldn't be able to get around it. The other side is attached to the wall via the ductwork.

For door widths, I copied the builder on the 36" door size to the storage and mechanical to the new door and the entrance to the brewery.
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SoundsLikeLife



Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KB wrote:
Not trying to nit pick, but really want the brewery on the other side/wall of the bathroom?


I guess I never considered it on the opposite wall. I figured it makes the most sense for easy access to the drain pipe from the bathroom sink. That is one thing I don't like about my basement though. I would have put the bathroom elsewhere. We did a semi-custom build, but we had so many other decisions and weren't finishing the basement right away that we didn't put much thought (or any) into the basement layout sadly.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10341
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KB wrote:
Not trying to nit pick, but really want the brewery on the other side/wall of the bathroom?

I guess I don't see it, but what's wrong with that?

Kal

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