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Kal's basement Brewery/Bar/Home Theatre build 2.0
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hmullen



Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Basement flooring Reply with quote


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Can I ask you what type of flooring you put down? It looks like some type of industrial carpet.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct!

It's industrial carpet tile. Comes in 19.7" x 19.7" squares. Really the only reason for going with carpet tile is because all of the role carpet we saw looked too "house like" if that makes any sense. It looked like it belonged in a living room or bedroom or similar. We wanted a different look.

It's glued down and doesn't have an underpad so it's fairly 'hard' to walk on if you're used to walking on cushy carpet. Still much softer than tile or hardwood of course. Still softer than similar carpet tile you'd find in an office building as that's often laid directly on slab. We have ours on subfloor which has some give.

One of the added benefits is that you can pull a tile up and replace it if needed. (There were extras). I say it's "glued" but it's more of paste that stays permanently tacky. Not really glue. The squares do not slide around because there's nowhere for them to go - it's wall to wall.

If you search through this thread you'll find more discussions about it.

Cheers!

Kal

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Topdollar



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 65



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal (or anyone in the know)

I'm looking at picking up the same Metro 8 tap tower that you used; however, the only Micro Matic trunk line I've been able to source in Canada is 3/8ths. I see 1/4" beverage line was used here so I'm a bit leery of going with a different size. It's going to be a pretty short run from the Keezer to the tap - 10 feet or so. Wondering what your thoughts are on this.

I have a standalone SS Brewtech-branded Eco-33 glycol chiller, so I'm thinking I'll just pickup some glycol trunk line, run this into my keezer to meet up with the product/glycol trunk line, and continue on to the taps.

Kal - any advice as to insulating that bare portion of the tap connections to the trunk line? You mention plastic wrap, foil and then insulation - like the trunk line itself - but I'm not too creative some specifics as to what you did would be helpful!

Edit: As soon as I typed this, I found a glycol install kit on Micro Matic's site that kind of gives me an idea of what I'll need....

As well, only place I've found in Canada carrying this draft tower is BBS Systems; anyone have any other suppliers I can check with?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topdollar wrote:
Hey Kal (or anyone in the know)

I'm looking at picking up the same Metro 8 tap tower that you used; however, the only Micro Matic trunk line I've been able to source in Canada is 3/8ths.

Buy the trunk line from Micromatic at the same time you pick up the tap tower - I bought trunk line, glycol line, and tower from Micromatic at the same time. Complete details here http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=290842#290842

Quote:
Kal - any advice as to insulating that bare portion of the tap connections to the trunk line? You mention plastic wrap, foil and then insulation - like the trunk line itself - but I'm not too creative some specifics as to what you did would be helpful!

I did exactly that - the insulation I used was the same stuff that's on the trunk line. You have to remove a bunch for the part that's in your keg keezer, so you'll have a bunch extra. To be able to get all 8 lines to any keg in the keezer I probably had to strip back a good 6 feet or so. Just be careful when you remove it to not nick the actual product lines.

Quote:
As well, only place I've found in Canada carrying this draft tower is BBS Systems; anyone have any other suppliers I can check with?

I bought mine directly from Micromatic. I don't think they resell. (Edit: I looked up BBS systems and they do appear to be a reseller. Try getting a quote by going direct to - it may actually be cheaper than paying a middle man in addition to Micromatic). They're what I'd consider the best professional draft manufacturer in the world and sell lots of commercial stuff which is why I wanted to use their products. Too many homebrew shops sell what I'd consider 'junk' draft equipment (mostly made in China), so when it was time to upgrade the serving side, I wanted it all to be quality stuff like German made CM Becker disconnects ( http://www.homebrewing.org/Ball-Lock-Disconnect-Set--MFL_p_6553.html?AffId=95 ) and trunk line and tower from Micromatic.

I did look at similar stuff from CDNBev.com I didn't like the looks of it as much and it was actually cheaper to buy from Micromatic in the USA and get what I wanted.

Good luck!

Kal

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Topdollar



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 65



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal - just spoke with BBS (they're the only authorized Canadian reseller) and they're pumping a quote out for me now.

Threw down for your exact configuration - figure I'd make use of the low NWT (i.e. N/A) PST while I'm up here and while that tax return is just sitting there looking to be spent.

One thing - they actually recommended 5/16th beverage line - even for my anticipated 10-15 foot run - but I'll do some research. Not sure if .25s of an inch will be a huge deal, but I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of line balancing Drunk

Sure I'll be back on the board asking questions once I start putting this together!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have 14-15' from keg to tap so 0.25" ID trunk line was fine. Works great. The smaller diameter line the better, as then chilling it is easier too as there's less liquid in the line. 0.3125" may be fine too however.

Kal

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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I only have 14-15' from keg to tap so 0.25" ID trunk line was fine. Works great.


Kal did you just buy 15ish feet of the trunk line and strip the insulation off 6 feet on the end (or so) for what goes into the keezer and then connect those lines directly to your ball locks? I assumed you had a section of beer line I. The keezer that then connected to the trunk line at the collar. Thanks for the insight.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creepy wrote:
Kal did you just buy 15ish feet of the trunk line and strip the insulation off 6 feet on the end (or so) for what goes into the keezer and then connect those lines directly to your ball locks?

Correct! That's exactly what I did.

Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

From where did you source your steel shelving in the brewery?

Craig
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Craig,

Shelving attached to the brewery walls is cheap stuff from IKEA. No complaints. Restaurant supply stores have similar stuff and higher end stuff if you like. Good luck!

Kal

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drcraig



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see, yes much cheaper!

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S69002469/
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually this stainless shelving here: http://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/00011428/

I used a bunch of things from their GRUNDTAL line: http://m.ikea.com/us/en/search/?query=Grundtal+&_=1491496634824
Kal

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StafflesBrew



Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 28
Location: UK - Midlands


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I've been spending a lot of time lately on getting the bar taps all set up properly. There's still a ways to go but I figured an update was in order.

First thing that was needed was a chalkboard so that we can write down what's on tap:



Everyone that sees it thinks it's a flat panel TV. Once I add some writing it should be more obvious what it is. Wink

This is actually a mirror bought from a local discount home improvement store. Finding one the right size/ratio and that suited our style took some time but the result was considerably less expensive than having something custom made ($50 vs $400).

The glass was sanded lightly and then Rust-Oleum chalkboard spray paint was applied after carefully covering the frame and edges with tape.

Rust-Oleum chalkboard paint is also available that can be applied with a roller or brush. I've used it before for other projects and a roller is definitely preferred to avoid brush marks but you need to then be able to roll past the working area. Since the glass mirror could not be easily removed from the frame (it's glued in) I opted to go with spray paint here instead to make sure that the finish was nice and smooth.

I hooked up the Draft Beer Trunk Line (1/4" 8 Product Lines w/ 2 Glycol Lines) to the 8-tap tower and added the six Perlick faucets and two stout faucets using a faucet wrench. This special wrench is absolutely required. You'll completely wreck the nice finish on the shank nuts if you try to use a regular wrench. The good news is that a faucet wrench is only about $5.

It's amazing how many tools it takes to do what's actually a pretty straight forward job (mostly because I had to go through 2 layers of drywall and the bar cabinet back wall - all very cramped):





The hose ends were heated slightly with a heat gun to make them easier to slide on to the barbed ends of the tower supply lines. Small all stainless worm clamps are used to hold them in place.

Once all tests are done the exposed hoses will be wrapped in plastic wrap (moisture barrier), then wrapped in metal foil for (cold transfer from glycol lines to product lines), and then insulated. Same as the original trunk line.

I don't believe I ever included a photo of the plumbing to supply and drain the drip tray so here's an explanation of the parts shown:

1 - Pressure gauge for glass rinser. (Around 15-20 PSI is all you need).

2 - Pressure reducing valve (PRV) used to take the ~60 PSI house water pressure down to ~15 PSI for the glass rinser. (The PRV is mostly hidden by the beer trunk line in the picture above).

3 - One way check valve to stop any backflow. (Prevents the rinser from leaking/squirting if house water pressure drops and comes back).

4 - Shut off valve for glass rinser.

5 - Shut-off valve for brewery floor drain washout. (You need to run water through basement floor drains once or twice a year to avoid standing water. This valve makes it easy. I simply open it for 10 seconds a couple of times/year since technically the brewery floor drain will never be used - it's there "just in case". Most houses will only have 1 floor drain that is automatically washed/cleaned from the air conditioner, dehumidifyer, and/or HRV/ERV system so no need for manual intervention.)

6 - Drain from drip tray. (A regular dishwasher drain hose that connects to above the P-trap under the bar sink).

7 - Cold water supply line to the drip tray sprayer. (Always use cold water for a glass rinser).


One the brewery side the large trunk line will connect to the keg freezer (keezer) on the right:



The freezer on the left is actually run as a freezer and is used to store hops and dry yeast, and to chill the glycol lines in the trunk line. I've been doing various cooling scenario tests at the moment to see what works best and will be documenting more shortly.


Extra shelves were installed in the brewery, (still more to come for the right wall):



I've brewed twice now in the new room and it's a welcome change from running around in the garage. Everything is at your fingertips.


On the Home Theatre front, our existing Zenith 1200 CRT projector has been temporarily put back into service by floor mounting to tide us over until a new projector is ordered. (We're waiting for a new line of JVC models that won't be out until likely end of December, and I do not want to be first in line either). Having the old projector running will also make it easier to sell as prospective buyers will want to see it in action.



Bonus points to anyone who recognizes the miniseries currently up on screen.

I discovered a new genre of movie posters that I like called "retro minimalist" (Google "retro minimalist movie posters"). These ones feature the movie that probably had the biggest impact on me and made me want to get into this hobby:



As far as I'm concerned, Han shot first and Jar Jar doesn't exist.

Kal






Hi Kal,

I'm looking at a DIY beer tower due to budget constraints. The glycol lines in your beer feed, do they just sit next to eh beer lines keeping them cool? or do they connect/wrap around the faucets in any way? Have you opened up the Beer tower at all to find out?

Thanks,
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StafflesBrew wrote:
I'm looking at a DIY beer tower due to budget constraints. The glycol lines in your beer feed, do they just sit next to eh beer lines keeping them cool? or do they connect/wrap around the faucets in any way? Have you opened up the Beer tower at all to find out?

Hi! All towers with cooling lines will have copper internals that go up through the middle of the product lines and then also wrap around the shanks to keep all the beer cold. If you don't you'll have warm beer up in the tower will will tend to foam up whenever you go a few minutes without pouring.

The other type of tower is air cooled where the tower's usually placed on top of a bar fridge or similar (kegerator) and cold air from the fridge keeps the lines and shanks cold. Some will have a little fan in them to circulate the air.

In my previous setup I used copper pipping wrapped around the shanks to keep the lines cold. You can see pictures here:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=389102&postcount=26
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=389104&postcount=27
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=442915&postcount=41

Good luck!

Kal

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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal, I'm finally driving over to the Micromatic warehouse in Illinois tomorrow to pick up the gear for my draught setup. The sales girl, Sarah (amazingly patient and helpful by the way), who has been helping me mentioned the resistance of that tower you are using is 7.5 lbs. Then she said each foot of trunk line is right about 1 lb of resistance. Is that what you are seeing in your system to get a quality smooth pour? I feel like that would lead one to have a fairly short run and I know you are off something like 15 ft. I appreciate the insight. Just trying to ensure I get the right ID beer line to splice in with my trunk line. Thanks.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creepy wrote:
Hey Kal, I'm finally driving over to the Micromatic warehouse in Illinois tomorrow to pick up the gear for my draught setup. The sales girl, Sarah (amazingly patient and helpful by the way), who has been helping me mentioned the resistance of that tower you are using is 7.5 lbs. Then she said each foot of trunk line is right about 1 lb of resistance. Is that what you are seeing in your system to get a quality smooth pour?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean when you ask "is that what you're seeing?". I have about 15 feet if 0.25" ID trunk line with the beer a couple of degrees above zero and pressure set to about 8-10 PSI and that gives me the carb level I want, and it pours fine, though at the low end some may find a bit slow. I don't care, as I'm not a bar serving 2000 beers/hr.

Some talk about it here recently: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30553

Kal

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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Kal. I tend to keep my fridge a bit warmer (38F) so at 12 PSI I should probably get a nice pour with the line lengths I was looking at using.

Sarah at Micromatic talked me out of going the route you did with just stripping the insulation off the last 6-8 feet. She cautioned that those lines are very easy to kink and ruin. I see you and others using that exclusively and haven't had issues though. She recommended I just splice in 1/4' vinyl beer line once the trunk is inside the keezer as it's more flexible. Any thoughts or words of wisdom to that end?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9727
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate vinyl and the taste it gives beer, so I didn't want to use anything but the PET-covered trunk line.

I don't really see the issue with kinking, especially on permanently installed lines in a bar that'll never move. Maybe during the install if you're not careful?. I'm sure bar installers run a tons of this stuff, often 100's of feet and are pulling/pushing it like crazy.

I also use about 4-5 feet or so in my sunroom kegerator. The kegerator (ironically) came with great quality Micromatic lines, taps and a tower but it still threw the taste off with a plastic taste on the first pour from beer siting in the line, so I replaced the vinyl line with leftover trunk line I had (minus the insulation since it's in a chilled kegerator) and haven't had any kinking issues in the 3 or so years of using it even though those lines get moved around a lot more (every time a keg is changed).

Pics/videos of the kegerator:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUpJMJkFc7_/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery
https://www.instagram.com/p/BW6GmzmAuU6/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbFe9G2AHut/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

Kal

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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, thanks again for the insight last week. Unfortunately I didnít catch them in time and they had already cut my trunk and vinyl line. So Iíll work with this for now but if I have any nasty taste coming out of that line itíll quickly be replaced. All in all a terrific experience with micromatic. They do also happen to have the cleanest warehouse to boot! Akin to Dexterís kill room.
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Tennessee



Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 112
Location: Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Boardwalk Empire" one of my all time favorite series!




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