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Kal's basement Brewery/Bar/Home Theatre build 2.0
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BeerguyNC61



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 21
Location: North Carolina


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Oh I was thinking bigger room bigger equipment..... Smile
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've put in a 6/3 wire to the control panel, just in case I wanted a 50A panel for larger batches in the future. It's more work than just a new control panel and larger kettles however: I'd need a larger hood & table too which means some major rework. I doubt it'll ever happen.

If I build a 50A back to back panel the kettles would stay the same however. I don't really have any plans for that either. Making 10 gallons at a time is the perfect amount for me and still keeps it a hobby based on how fast the family & friends consume. I lets me brew about once a month. Everyone will have different needs however.

If / when I retire farther down the road and want to brew more and try out new recipes, I may actually go the opposite direction and start making 3 or 5 gallon batches. Who knows!

Kal

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randbrewer1010



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 110



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's it. I am secretly moving into Kal's basement when it is finished. Pretty sure it is big enough he won't notice Wink
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randbrewer1010 wrote:
Pretty sure it is big enough he won't notice Wink

Depends on how much beer you drink.... Kegs emptying faster than normal I'll notice... Wink

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I hung the sauna heater, hooked up the 8/3 wire using a saddle connector to provide the proper strain relief (it only uses the two HOT lines and the GROUND - the NEUTRAL is unused and was terminated with a twist-on insulated wire connector), cleaned the rocks, and did a test run to burn off some of the oils left behind during the manufacturing process. The thing worked great. Amazing how fast 7000W of power can heat up a small room!





There's a few pieces of 2x2" and 1x3" cedar that they supply that you can install as an optional heater guard but I don't think it'll bother. The sides of the unit actually do not get hot as there's an air gap between the outside and inside wall where air is allowed to flow to keep the outside wall cool. Only the top and the rocks get hot. The unit is also out of a traffic path.

I also find that using the guard doesn't look as nice. It's detrimental to the clean look of the room. Here's an example of the guard in use on the same heater in a different sauna:



Kal

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randbrewer1010



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 110



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
randbrewer1010 wrote:
Pretty sure it is big enough he won't notice Wink

Depends on how much beer you drink.... Kegs emptying faster than normal I'll notice... Wink

Kal
Well, you have a brewery. As long as I make more beer than I drink, I think it could go on for a while.
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randbrewer1010



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 110



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Yesterday I hung the sauna heater, hooked up the 8/3 wire using a saddle connector ...

Kal


8/3 is some stout stuff. I felt like I was really fighting the 10/3 I installed in my garage and I had a clear straight run.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup! The 6/3 I used for my control panel outlet (just in case I wanted to upgrade in the future) was even worse.

Watching the electrician wrestle with the 100A and 200A aluminum wiring (4/0) didn't make it look easy either!

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

randbrewer1010 wrote:
Well, you have a brewery. As long as I make more beer than I drink, I think it could go on for a while.

A live-in brewmaster? Hmm, now we're on to something!

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bunch of the fine wood working was installed today. I have to say we're really impressed with the work. It's all done by http://cabinetsbydesignottawa.com.

Bar front & window trim between the bar & brewery:






Detail on the bar front that shows how the aluminum channel is done:






Window trim detail:



Once the 3 panes of glass are installed the trim on the back side will be installed as well.


Riser nosing, step and feet:







You can also see in the above pictures how floor leveling compound was used between some of the large 4x8' OSB sheets in preperation for the carpet tiles. The carpet tiles are 1/4" thick 20x20" pieces that are glued directly to the floor. There's no underpad. Any ridges in the floor need to be levelled out otherwise you may feel them. Carpet pad under a normal carpet install hides a lot.


Home theater equipment rack:



In the back the shelves are notched to leave room for a wire chase between shelves:



Ventilation holes are purposely not cut at my request as I need to figure out what goes where. I'll work that out myself and then cut some holes and install some low speed fans with grills.


DVD/Blu-ray shelves:






Under the stairs is our "head end" where satellite/internet/phone/security systems reside. We need to provide a way in for the once every few years when access is required. It's also how you access the back side of the bathroom plumbing and urinal clean-out (required in Ontario by law). So A hidden door that looks like a niche is used:





The door is held closed with a couple of small rare earth magnets. You just give it a push to open it. We'll probably put a piece of art or two on the door and nobody will even know it's a door. It'll should also stop someone from accidentally leaning on it and falling in by accident. Smile Most of the time however the sliding door at the bottom of the stairs will completely cover this hidden door so we'll see ...

On Monday carpet gets installed, followed by quartz templating on Tuesday. Slowly but surely we're getting closer to the finish.

Kal

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FlyRodder



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are your brewing in your garage while this is going on, or are you on a hiatus? If I haven't brewed for a few months, I would be getting very antsy at this points (so close!)

Very nice job.

Re: the DVD/blu-ray storage would you ever switch to a digital media server? I don't think I've purchased (or even rented) a blu-ray in years.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyRodder wrote:
Are your brewing in your garage while this is going on, or are you on a hiatus? If I haven't brewed for a few months, I would be getting very antsy at this points (so close!)

I set up temporarily in the garage:



I find brewing in the garage to be a pain I spend half my time running around the house looking for things since it's not a dedicated area. I unplug the stove in the kitchen and plug in there which is also not overly convenient as the stove stays unplugged all day. Then there's the lugging of 6 gallon pails of wort down the stairs too...

Quote:
Re: the DVD/blu-ray storage would you ever switch to a digital media server?


If you mean building a real media server (a computer with a large array of hard drives) then no because:

- Too expensive: Blu-rays files (movie only) vary in size depending on length but the average is around 20Gb. To store the Blu-ray discs and DVDs I already have I figure I'd already need a 20-30Tb array of hard drives since I would not want to reduce the bitrate/quality of the original movie. That's a big server which would cost more than the shelves I paid for. The added cost for the power requirements and to cool because of the heat generated would also add to monthly costs. We put enough shelves in to double our current capacity so we should be good for another ~20 years. An added expense is maintaining the server. Computers break. A plastic Blu-ray box doesn't.

- Extra work: it's work to copy stuff over. I've never understood how it's more convenient to have a movie on a media server when you have to go through the steps of coping it all there in the first place. There's software to do all this for you but you still have to go through the steps once and wait the 10-20 minutes per movie. Then you still need some place to store the physical movie anyway. You can't legally copy the movie and then sell it. Nor can you legally rent the movie, copy it, and return it. With a shelf I put the movie on the shelf. The work is done. Wink

People often tout that a big feature of media servers is quicker access. I don't get this either. You're going to watch a 2 hour movie... does it really matter that it took you 2 minutes to walk over to the shelf and find the movie instead of typing in the name on the media server and getting the movie in 10 seconds? Some will say that you don't have to get up to change the movie... You're probably getting up between movies anyway to stretch/get a drink/go to the bathroom.

The only benefit (IMHO) if a media server is whole house access to movies so that all TVs can access the same collection. But for me that seems completely anti-social. We like to watch movies together. The odd time that we don't, the person watching will usually want to watch on the best TV in the house, which is the home theater. If not, you can take 2 minutes to go get the movie and go to another TV though we don't have TVs all over the house ...

If you mean streaming (on demand) content then no, because:

- The quality is not the same: On-demand/streaming services all severely compress the movie using lossy compression which loses detail. They do this to lower the bitrate. You may not t notice it on an average sized TV but on a large screen it's noticeable. People often think that as long as it's 1080p then it's all the same. Not true. They severely limit the bitrate for streaming content which can greatly reduce the image detail.

- The selection is not the same: On-demand works best for the latest / blockbuster movies. Want to watch the Akira Kurosawa classic Seven Samurai from 1954 or something else that may be consider "obscure" by the average person? You're out of luck.

So having the physical boxes with the Blu-ray in it is the least amount of work and gives you the best quality possible. There are the important criteria for me.

Most people that end up with media servers do so because they've stolen (downloaded) the movies illegally or made an illegal copy. I have no interest in doing that. Movies are an important part of my life and I want to support the content creators/artists. Acquiring them for free is counter-productive. I'm shooting myself in the foot. If we want movies to exist, someone has to actually pay for them.

Kal

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
...Computers break. A plastic Blu-ray box doesn't.

- The quality is not the same:

- The selection is not the same: On-demand works best for the latest / blockbuster movies. Want to watch the Akira Kurosawa classic Seven Samurai from 1954 or something else that may be consider "obscure" by the average person? You're out of luck.

So having the physical boxes with the Blu-ray in it is the least amount of work and gives you the best quality possible. There are the important criteria for me.

Most people that end up with media servers do so because they've stolen (downloaded) the movies illegally or made an illegal copy. I have no interest in doing that. Movies are an important part of my life and I want to support the content creators/artists. Acquiring them for free is counter-productive. I'm shooting myself in the foot. If we want movies to exist, someone has to actually pay for them.

Kal



unless you have the rowdy boys I have... Everything breaks!



Netflix SUX... especially at 750 Kb/Sec. internet speed. But it's the only option I have... I am about 2 miles outside of the microwave transmission coverage of my local provider that internet speed would be SOOOO nice!



NETFLIX SUX... they have some cool older stuff, but for the most part I subscribe so I can watch "How it's made" with my boys and they can watch old school GI JOE and Transformers. Takes me back to when I was a kid... For the most part, I don't appreciate the 'popular' movies that are out on netflix


Very well said Kal.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
For the most part, I don't appreciate the 'popular' movies that are out on netflix[/color]


I'm probably about 50/50 popular stuff and non-standard stuff. Even if the selection was good when renting or doing Netflex I prefer to have them on hand as we never know when we want to watch or what we want to watch. Especially true when people come over... we prefer to not plan ahead what to watch. I like having a selection available. Everyone's different though.

Kal

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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 710
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a home server with all our photos and music on it and media players in three rooms. That serves us well. There are DVD rips as well, but not many. I've thought about ripping our Blu-rays, but yes, that kind of storage, cooling, etc. isn't worth it yet for me. Oh, and photos and music were redundantly stored, but not the movies. Had a hard drive crash in the last month. Now I need to decide which things are worth re-ripping.
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Likwid



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 43



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think your overextending what a media server really is to those whom use it. While I agree with this statement:

Quote:
Most people that end up with media servers do so because they've stolen (downloaded) the movies illegally or made an illegal copy. I have no interest in doing that. Movies are an important part of my life and I want to support the content creators/artists. Acquiring them for free is counter-productive. I'm shooting myself in the foot. If we want movies to exist, someone has to actually pay for them.


Itís not everybody. I find that a media server is really just another enthusiast doing a hobby. No different then beer making.

Too expensive: it cost 300 dollars to build a server that can handle 7 to 14 TB of storage. Itís about 70 dollars per TB. You could instead go for a 2TB drive at 110 per 2 TB (the 14 TB option). Given the hard disk cost and the server cost using the 14TB option you are looking at 1200 (rounded up) total cost to build out a 14 TB media server. This would be a RAID 5 array of 8 2TB drives producing 14 TB of space (actual space varies). The RAID (redundant array of individual disks) provides redundancy against data loss during hard disk failure. A disk fails you simple pull out the bad disk, you pop in a new disk (you can even set up hot swap bays for this) and your back to normally. You never lost data and you never had downtime even during a disk failure.

Assuming 20 GB per movie is 70 movies per server. You could extend your RAID through PCI express slots by 4 or 8 Disks for as little as 50 bucks for the card and 110 again per hard disk. So you are not limited.
Given this you donít need to start with 14TB, all you need is 3 disks to get started and you can add to it at any time you need.

Todayís technology when you are not using the server the disks are spin down to conserve energy. Even when this is not the case my media server with a watt meter running only pulls 300 watts max. The Meter spits out at .134 cents per KWH hour its 8 dollars a month in electricity. This assumes that itís running at capacity 24/7. When the disks are spun down during non-use time itís about 2 dollars per month.

Costs to cool? The stock fans and heat sinks do the job just fine.

At 1200 dollars vs. a beer system costing an average person on this site 6,000 dollars cannot be compared hobby to hobby.

Quality is not the same: Canít argue on this one because you are right. To an audio video person this canít be contested. I would argue that at 20GB rips if done correctly you would have a very hard time for the novice enthusiast and especially the average user to know any difference. I would even argue at 10GB per movie most people would not even realize. I run a home theater myself at 120 inch (HD of course 1080P) and while I do know the difference my fiancť and her friends have no clue.

Extra work: while this is true as well especially if you start after you have amassed a collection. It once again is a hobby and even sometimes peopleís jobs. If youíre an IT person on the world then you most likely deal with Network related items and RIADs. Just like in beer making you have plenty of options at the local store and it does not take you 6 to 10 hours to make and 4 weeks to ferment/condition.

A media server is not just a movie box. It can be anything you want it to be. For me its
1. Movies and video content of any type
2. Music Ė I have a touch screen jukebox in my bar area that plays though the house (controlled by zones)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422769_3781800517785_1532307006_n.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pa2GLFPbkM&feature=youtu.be

3. Storage and backups for import files
4. A host for my Virtual Lab machines for work related items.
5. Storage for photo's
6. anything else i can think of in the future

In the ends itís not for everybody. Just like any other hobby.
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FlyRodder



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the discussion. I'm not a media guy, I can barely sit long enough to watch a 45 minute episode of Breaking Bad, let alone an entire movie. Also I work on the road a lot and what little free time I do have is generally consumed quickly by brewing, fishing, gardening, and hiking. And the dog. So I am pretty ignorant on the subject. I understand the quality issues and by media server I was thinking streaming on demand and rentals through a service like Apple iTunes, as well as pulling up ripped versions of your DVDs/BluRays (and it seems that BluRays are being sold with digital versions "in the cloud").

But I will continue to follow along while waiting for the first brew day pics!
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Likwid



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 43



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarification I was just saying that media server it just another hobby. To say its expensive and extra effort can be said to any hobby.

Nobody spends thousands on beer making to say "hey i do it because its cheaper". I don't think anybody would build a media server to say its cheaper either.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Building media servers can most definitely be a hobby, as can any other activity. The reasons I stated above were the reasons why I have no interest in building one myself.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9845
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The carpet has been installed:







Some more baseboard & quarter round work was done. The baseboards will not stay white. They're being painted the same colour as the walls. Just like the doors and door trim seen at the end of the hall in the last photo.

UrbanQuarry.ca came to template for the bar quartz. A considerable amount of time was spent working out the exact placement of the draft tower & drip tray as it's not the typical stuff they're used to seeing. The 3" hole for the tower is something they'd rather do with their wet CNC machine in the shop instead of on site later so it had to be figured out now. The 4 small holes for the tower mount bolts as well as the two holes for the drip tray will be done on site. Same with the bar sink faucet. The large cutout for the bar sink will of course also be done in their shop. They took the sink with them to be sure of the measurements.

The tower hole placement is tricky as you want to leave enough room behind the tower to be able to clean, and the tower and the drip tray have be pressed up against each other (the drip tray fits "into" the tower). You also need to make sure you have room for the drip tray plumbing underneath (drain & glass rinser) once you factor in quartz overhang, bar doors/cabinetry. You can't have the drip tray up too far as while you can drill through the quartz just about anywhere, you don't want to have the drain plumbing hit the cabinet framing/door. In fact, considerable time was spent up front to determine the exact cabinet depth to allow for all these things before the cabinets themselves were build. It was a very large domino effect. The end result after all this math is a quartz counter that's 15-3/4" deep with 2" behind the tower and 2-3/4" between the drip tray and the front quartz overhang.

They'll also be cutting the exact length for the vertical waterfall counter on site (in the truck) after they install the horizontal pieces. The vertical piece down the side of the bar also needs to be finished (polished) on both sides since it'll be visible on both sides. Normally quartz (or granite) is only polished on the top since the bottom edge is not seen (below eye level or hidden by cabinets).

They only take ~2 weeks from templating to install so the quartz is likely to be installed the week after next. UrbanQuarry.ca is the same company that our builder actually used for our kitchen quartz which is good to hear as they did a great job (clean install, seams not visible).

Next Wednesday they install the fireplace wall wood and the bar cabinet doors. Glass shelves and shower wall are probably close too.

Kal

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