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Kal's basement Brewery/Bar/Home Theatre build 2.0
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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KES



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you and I were closer kal.... I'd shovel rubble all day for free kal brew! Mug
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perogi wrote:
"right to make room for a urinal." oh bless your heart - I would LOVE to have a urinal when I finally build a mancave!

That was my wife's idea. We both thought it was kind of silly but then the more I thought about it, the more I wanted one.

They're pretty cheap too. What'll get you is the plumber costs. Wink

Here's the one I like:



Link: Toto Wall Mount 0.5 GPF Urinal UT104EV#01 Cotton White

Only $118. It's got a back spud (the feeder pipe goes in the back) so you then put an in-wall flusher with only a button visible. You still need some sort of access panel for service so the button would be in the middle of a stainless plate with 4 screws:



Or it might be low enough to provide access from the crawl space under the steps (not sure - TBD).

Manual flush is fine. I originally thought that an automated system would be cool but they (a) cost a lot more, and (b) many are meant for commercial use only with lots of traffic (at least 30 flushes/day) to keep the battery in it charged as some charge by the action of water movement. 30 flushes/day is more beer than I'm willing to drink. You can get ones that take AA batteries too but now it seems to be getting a bit silly... "Gotta go change the batteries on the urinal!". Wink Keep it simple & mechanical. Less parts to break.

You could argue that a urinal is actually a money saving device. Our regular toilets are reasonably low flush (1.6 gallons per flush or GPH) while many urinals are only 0.5 GPH. Though I suppose we could have simply put in a toilet with dual flush capability too... (not as interesting).

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Spike Innovations
TheElectricBrewery.com manufacturer


Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 246
Location: ME

Working on: Your Brewery!


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
30 flushes/day is more beer than I'm willing to drink. You can get ones that take AA batteries too but now it seems to be getting a bit silly... "Gotta go change the batteries on the urinal!". Wink Keep it simple & mechanical. Less parts to break.

Kal


Or even worse being too drunk to change the batteries when they die in the middle of a night!

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spike Innovations wrote:
kal wrote:
30 flushes/day is more beer than I'm willing to drink. You can get ones that take AA batteries too but now it seems to be getting a bit silly... "Gotta go change the batteries on the urinal!". Wink Keep it simple & mechanical. Less parts to break.


Or even worse being too drunk to change the batteries when they die in the middle of a night!

Ha! The worst part would be that you'd probably already have taken the leak and then when nothing happens you realize you have to change the batteries... then end up dropping one in the urinal...

(They all have manual override but that doesn't make the story as gross/interesting) Wink

Flushless (waterless) urinals are available too but they're (IMHO) disgusting.

Kal

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silverspoons



Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I predict that this thread will become the next " coiling stainless tubing" phenom!

Silverspoons
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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, while we are on topic... have a look over on this thread at HBT. He recently went through all the same woes of finding the PERFECT man porcelain.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/those-have-incorporated-urinals-314920/
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cscade



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Wooster, OH


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, I'll be in Montreal with my wife on business the next 4 days, just let me know when we can pop over for a beer Wink

In all seriousness, the build looks great and very well planned. It's going to be fun to watch!

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Ben58



Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 406
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Spike Innovations wrote:
kal wrote:
30 flushes/day is more beer than I'm willing to drink. You can get ones that take AA batteries too but now it seems to be getting a bit silly... "Gotta go change the batteries on the urinal!". Wink Keep it simple & mechanical. Less parts to break.


Or even worse being too drunk to change the batteries when they die in the middle of a night!

Ha! The worst part would be that you'd probably already have taken the leak and then when nothing happens you realize you have to change the batteries... then end up dropping one in the urinal...

(They all have manual override but that doesn't make the story as gross/interesting) Wink

Flushless (waterless) urinals are available too but they're (IMHO) disgusting.

Kal


I agree about the waterless toilets. Not that I am trying to drum up work for my bretheren plumbers. I saw this technology 6 years ago when I was in Ann Arbour going to school for my teacing certification. Mug
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jask



Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is looking great Kal, when do we see more brewery details?... ( get to the important stuff!!)
Before you give up on the idea of a nice Perlick barback check with some of the used pub/restaurant supply houses, if one is available it might be more affordable than you think.
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Prime



Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 39



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plans look amazing. Looking forward to seeing this project progress!
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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 710
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
Before you give up on the idea of a nice Perlick barback check with some of the used pub/restaurant supply houses, if one is available it might be more affordable than you think.

Those commercial keg coolers show up on craigslist here as well. I didn't see any listed in Ottawa, but I'd check again if you really want one. This and this aren't exactly what you're looking for, but I've seen them before.

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need for one at the moment but I may look at it down the road. Getting something large down the stairs (which have a turn) is an issue. I would need to get two smaller ones likely and hire professional movers.

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Thu May 03, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work on the sub-floor started today... They started laying the platon and the OSB:



All this plywood/OSB/lumber was also passed through a small 4' basement window (not shown is the 1400 lbs of concrete):



Our basement stairs are in two parts with a turn. It's pain getting ONE 8x4' sheet down the stairs without gouging the walls, not to mention 50. Just wait until drywall!

On a somewhat separate but related topic:

Radon mitigation (Radon is known to cause lung cancer and is most prevalent in basement areas as it seeps through the floor):

Last week, before any of this work started, I spent an hour or two sealing any hairline cracks in the concrete with cement polyurethane product. Today I filled the I-beam support pillars with expanding foam. $20 total to help (just in case). The cracks between the concrete floor and wall pour will get filled with the closed cell spray foam that will be used to replace the R12 fiberglass insulation in there now. It's shame to pull it out but a lot of it's going to have to come out anyway for electrical work. We had condensation problems up in the rim joist areas this last winter/spring so I really want to seal it all up well with sprayfoam insulation and be done with.

While (generally speaking) Radon in not a known issue around my neighborhood, every house is different. I feel it's better to be safe than sorry given the amount of time I spend in the basement. One $5 tube of concrete caulk and an $8 bottle of expanding foam plus 1 hour of work was all that was needed on my part. Helps me feel like I'm actually part of this construction as well. Wink

A few months ago I also purchased this Radon detector:

.

I've been running it in various floors of the house. It's been interesting to see how the levels vary. While for the most part the level seem to be fine, why not do things right... The lower the level, the more likely you are to avoid future issues with lung cancer. I spend enough time in the basement that I thought it was worth looking into/testing.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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randbrewer1010



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 110



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Radon mitigation (Radon is known to cause lung cancer and is most prevalent in basement areas as it seeps through the floor):


Kal


Someone called you Mr. Safety in some other thread. Here, you live up to that moniker.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

randbrewer1010 wrote:
Someone called you Mr. Safety in some other thread. Here, you live up to that moniker.

I like to think of myself as "Mr. Attention to Detail". Wink

We're in a new house (less than a year old) so I've being pretty observant about things. I don't think I'm being picky, I'm just paying attention.

I've had our builder's electrician 3 times now to repair things over the last 4-5 months. We got to talking the last time he was in (last week). 99% of his calls are what he calls "false alerts" where the new home owner just doesn't understand how things work. This is normal. When he saw my name come up last week he said he definitely knew something was up so he came right over. Wink

I know someone will ask so here are the 3 (so far) electrical things I noticed that were quickly fixed:

- A couple of the outlets in one of the bedrooms were not on an arc-fault circuit breaker but on a regular breaker. This is against code here. In Ontario all outlets in the "sleeping facilities of a dwelling unit" (aka bedrooms) must be on arc-fault. It's even more strict in the US. I tested by tripping all the arc-fault breakers in the panel and then testing the bedroom outlets. A couple were still working so they were mis-wired. They replaced that breaker. Better them than me as they're expensive at about $150/pop (about 10x the cost of a regular breaker).
- We have a makeup air system with heater because our stove hood is high CFM. The makeup air damper to the outside is supposed to open when the hood fan is on. It was opening only when the hood lights were on (low current) which makes you suck air from the outside and heat it for no reason in the winter. So I confirmed the current draw on the hood when only the lights are on vs. what the AC current switch in the panel is supposed to switch at per manufacturer specs (0.5A). It was off, switching way too low. They replaced it. Problem fixed. The only reason I thought to check this is because the builder had no idea what aftermarket hood fan we were installing so I didn't understand how they knew what sized AC current switch to install in the first place - it didn't make sense - they said that the damper would only open when we ran our hood fan but then they didn't ask for any specs on our hood fan we were going to install after, and I knew it wasn't going to be wired in any sort of interlock fashion (given that were going to install the hood fan after we took possession of the house). So I ran some tests and mapped out what the damper did at different current draws to see when it opened because I was going to replace it myself since I knew I'd probably have to. It wasn't switching at the right current draw so the builder replaced it for me. As luck would have it, the sizing was actually exactly right.
- The ground wire attached to our gas line in the basement ceiling had been cut by some other trade after it was installed. It was replaced. I noticed a ground wire that didn't seem to go anywhere so I did some tracing...

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:57 am; edited 4 times in total
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any opinions/experiences on beverage centers? We're going to be installing one built in under the bar.
A beverage center is basically a fridge without a freezer that has a glass door, meant for storing beverages. Looks like this:



They run the gamut of pricing from about $300-400 to up over $3000.

Our needs:

- Built in, under counter (this means it has to vent out the bottom).
- Quiet.
- Standard size around ~5 cu foot of space like the one shown above.
- Looking for something with a reasonable amount of quality in the build. I don't want to buy junk.

Reviews are all over the place. The common complaints people seem to have is that with their various units is that (a) they're not cold enough and (b) they are too noisy.

I'm not overly concerned with the temperature thing. Anything 40F or lower is likely fine. We keep our kitchen fridge at the default 38F setting and it's fine. I think some people who complain set their regular fridges to just above freezing (32F) and want their cans of beer to be ice cold and are annoyed that their beverage center won't do the same. These are the bud lite drinkers who don't want to taste their beer. Wink The beverage center will mostly be for pop, white wine, and the occasional bottled beer.

I'm considering the GE Monogram ZDBC240NBS. Picture shown above.

The Monogram is GE's high end line. I'm not sure if it's smart buying the "best" that a somewhat regular company offers like GE, Danby, Frigidaire, MagicChef, etc. Or if it's better to buy the lowest end model from a specialty company (ie: Marvel, Perlick, Sub Zero, Uline, True, Dacor, Miele, etc). My gut feel is that you should buy the lowest end model from a high end company as they're used to building quality components, instead of buying the high end model of some regular company that's just trying to reach into a market segment they're not used to working in. Their units are probably just made to look nice but don't use quality components inside (all window dressing).

Suggestions? We're only putting in one. No need for a separate wine cooler.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Fri May 04, 2012 1:14 am; edited 3 times in total
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grupe



Joined: 03 May 2012
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,
As far as the beverage center goes, I would be more concerned with noise. From looking at your plans, your bar will be in such close proximity to your theater I would hate to have to turn the volume up each time the compressor kicks on.
My thoughts on the industrial "High-end" units are that they are most commonly used commercially in bars and other public places. When you are sitting at a bar, you would NEVER hear the compressor kick on because of the dull roar in the bar. It would be worth picking out a few models from several manufacturers and get in contact with them to somehow find out the decibel rating of each unit.

Just my $.02
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9088
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter, Saison, Kölsch

Working on: Kölsch, Janet's Brown Ale


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
Kal,
As far as the beverage center goes, I would be more concerned with noise. From looking at your plans, your bar will be in such close proximity to your theater I would hate to have to turn the volume up each time the compressor kicks on.
My thoughts on the industrial "High-end" units are that they are most commonly used commercially in bars and other public places. When you are sitting at a bar, you would NEVER hear the compressor kick on because of the dull roar in the bar. It would be worth picking out a few models from several manufacturers and get in contact with them to somehow find out the decibel rating of each unit.

Just my $.02

Correct. I wouldn't want a COMMERCIAL beverage center. They tend to be loud since noise is not an issue. A high end consumer model meant for residential (not commercial) use should be ok however I'd think. Ones from Perlick, Sub Zero, Dacor, Miele, Uline, and True should be ok. Some of these companies also make commercial grade stuff where keeping noise low isn't the concern. I think TRUE makes both (for example).

Kal

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