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Any way to power up panel w/o 240V service?

 
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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Any way to power up panel w/o 240V service? Reply with quote


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I have been asked to bring my control panel to my next club meeting on Sept. 4th. The focus of the meeting will be brewing gadgets and gizmos. I will gladly bring my panel to let folks take a look at it.
Question is this...
Can I SAFELY create some type of power input that will power up the 120 side of the panel?
I don't want to create a hazard (and I'm sure Coors Distribution, Ft. Worth doesn't want an electrical hazard in their facility either) by having exposed conductors etc.
Can it even be done? I have the 50A Back to Back panel. Would the 240V 50A contactor on the power-in side even operate with lower voltage?
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Ben58




Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would have to rig up an extension cord for a 120 volt supply to a mating plug of your panel. You would need to put the neutral to neutral, ground to ground and hot ( 120 ) to the leg that triggers your input relay.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly right. The other HOT side doesn't need to be connected. It's only used to power the elements. If you wanted to do this the safest way possible, take a grounded power cord and connect it up to the 50A power cable female connector.

Absolutely everything will work other than getting heat to the elements and the voltmeter will always read 0V since one of the two HOT legs isn't connected.

I did something similar when I was testing my panel while I was building it. It wasn't what I'd consider "safe" since the wires at the power input were exposed.

I wrapped the cord around one of the handles to make it a "bit" safer:









You'll note that in the pictures above I only have one 10:1 stepdown transformer and power supply. The documentation supplied with the volt/amp meters said they could be powered from the same source which in fact wasn't true. I blew them up, troubleshooted, and ended up explaining to the manufacturer why their documentation was incorrect and they sent me new ones (and I ordered a second transformer/power supply). Lucky for me I left some room for them. I wasn't so lucky with the safe start relay which I ended up putting on the door only because there was no room on the backplate.

Kal

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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought about doing this... But then I thought "surly it cant be that easy"... Planned on just taking the end off my 8 gauge extension cord and putting it on another extension cord... Say, what... 14 gauge or so?
I was just not sure if the contactor would even turn on with only 120 coming in on one side of it.

Kal, What say you?
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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats funny... I got interrupted while typing the above... and you posted while I was writing.
Thanks Kal.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

14 ga is fine.

The main power in contactor (or relay) switches on from one HOT and the NEUTRAL. The other HOT isn't used. So yes, it'll work.

Kal

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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great! At least the folks in the club will be able to see what it looks like while operational. Going to look kindof funny with that skinny little extension cord coming out of that HUGE plug though! haha...

Thanks for the clarification
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huaco




Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1506
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update.
My club's meeting was last night and the "Brewing Gadgets and Gizmos" focus was a phenomenal hit! We had around 100 club members there!
I was able to converted the female plug to 14ga. 120 power and was able to power it up for demonstration.
The format was somewhat elementary school show and tell with open Q&A after each item.
If I can remember correctly here is a run-down of items covered.
-hop bag supported by bent copper wire over the edge of kettle (this guy is quite a joker - it was funny)
-counter pressure bottle filler
-all copper counter-flow-chiller that lays flat on the bottom of a brew stand
-similar CFC that when finished will use freon to chill the wort.
-DIY stir plate
-Fermentation controller that is programmable and auto-adjusts to whatever fermentation schedule it is running.
-My Electric Brewery control panel.
-Brewery controller a guy in the club is creating that is capable of fully automating the entire brewery.
-iPad brewery controller. The guy said he could tell his brewery to start filling with water and transferring liquids from anywhere he had internet access with his iPad. CRAZY!!!

While I was giving my demonstration, I was sure to reference TheElectricBrewery.com as well as Spike Innovations more than a few times. (They probably thought I was getting paid by you to rep the panel!) I had a "TUN" of fun answering questions after the show and tell was over. The meeting was pretty much done and folks stayed around for over an hour asking about the panel. I also took one of my bottom-drain tri-clamps with temp sensor to display the PID without it flashing "orAL" and got a LOT of questions on bottom draining keggles in this manner as well.
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hellbentbrewco




Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 34



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal I fired up my panel for the first time using 120 like is pictured above. Everything works as expected except the volt meter. Instead of getting zero's I get blinking negative numbers. Could I have the DC positive and negative wires reversed? Should I ignore the upside down sticker on the volt meter. I measured the volts coming out of the power supply and it's only 2.5 but the lights seem like they are bright enough, could this be the issue?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellbentbrewco wrote:
Kal I fired up my panel for the first time using 120 like is pictured above. Everything works as expected except the volt meter. Instead of getting zero's I get blinking negative numbers. Could I have the DC positive and negative wires reversed? Should I ignore the upside down sticker on the volt meter. I measured the volts coming out of the power supply and it's only 2.5 but the lights seem like they are bright enough, could this be the issue?

I'm afraid I have no idea. Without trying every voltmeter and wiring it every possible way I don't know how a specific model would behave if wired differently.

I don't suggest you ignore any stickers. The stickers show you the connection points.

If your voltmeter requires 5V to operate I'd suggest increasing the power supply to at least 4.5V. 2.5V may not be enough.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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hellbentbrewco




Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 34



PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That helped I think. I increased it to 4.5v and it went to a negative sign and 3 zero's. I'll wait until I get it plugged into the 240 outlet before messing with it further.
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