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Product Development

 
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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Product Development Reply with quote


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I had an idea, and needed a little help where the rubber meets the road.

I'm a landlord here in the midwest, and was just hit with a 800 dollar water bill from a vacant property. It seems the toilet was running for, wait for it...1 month straight. Absolutely horrible, no rent was paid that month either. So on to the idea.

I want to hook up a sensor to the main water inlet from the street, after the meter of course, that closes a solenoid if the water is running for greater the 1 hour (Ideally this could be adjustable).

1. It would have to allow for a little slack, in case of small sink leaks. This could happen and annoy any tenant that is there.
2. It would have to be easily reset, hopefully just a turn of a valve or a push of a button.
3. It would have to be as cheap as possible, for obvious reasons.
4. If it could be mechanical, that would be awesome, as sometimes power can be abruptly cut to the property...


I'm thinking an alarm would need to be present.
A volume meter really wouldn't be necessary, really just something that would recognize if there is any flow at all.
A cheap solenoid could be used, even something adapted from a washing machine or something, it would just need to be at least 3/4" to allow for flow.

I found something like this, but is used in the opposite way,

https://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/aqualarm-cooling-water-flow-detector-1-in-fpt-10233.html

It sends a signal if the water flow is stopped, basically used for making sure your engine is staying cool. Either way, a completed product will get you a reasonable reward, I was thinking a Sack of 2 row, or something in that range (maybe more if we could market it)...

I would put this on everyone of my properties immediately, and if it works, it would be fun to sell to all the other landlords I know (Then I could complete a full Blichmann conversion to my system!)...
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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I think something like this will work for the flow sensor... now I need a timer that automatically resets to 0 everytime the water is off...

http://www.waterfilters.net/HM-Digital-FMS-1-Water-Flow-Switch.html?zmam=91502559&zmas=1&zmac=4&zmap=FMS-1
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a simple permanent timer, you can use a RC (resistor capacitor) circuit. The relative values of the resistors and capacitor determine the cycle time.

Alternatively, you could use one of these - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Twin-timer-Relay-Time-Delay-Relay-100-240V-B2E-/260977632692?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc37aa5b4. I'm pretty sure these have built-in memory for when the power fails.

I use these in my control panel. You can control timer start (when the flow relay is activated), timer reset (when the flow relay is deactivated) and activate a relay (buzzer/alarm) when the timeout value is reached.

The manual is here. http://www.sestos-hk.com/english/download/B2E-EN.pdf

For the alarm, you could look into using a RF sender and receiver if you are not close to the property. They can have a range of several km.

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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so really, if the flow monitor sends a signal (the water is running) to the RC circuit for greater then say 1 hour (this you say is adjustable), I want it to close the solenoid.

If it runs for 5 minutes (say dishes are being done) it counts the 5 minutes, then when the water is turned off, starts back at 0. Basically starts up every time it senses water, and resets if the time limit isn't reached. If reached, BOOM, shut. I would like the reset to be easy though, like something a tenant could do if they were watering the lawn, or left the water running inside for some reason...

Thanks man, I'm going to look into both... and will be getting back to you.

**Edit

What would you call the circuit... All I'm finding is something like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omS-oWrq0pw&feature=related.

It's a time delay, basically you get the signal, the "light" turns on, and after some time, shuts off. I'm looking for something that gets signal, and after some time, turns on... I'm close though..
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Castermmt




Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you can fix the toilet. not trying to be a smart ass, but this seems a little overboard for a what is noting more then a broken toilet, $15 float replacement and your done. I was a landlord in Chicago for a few years and made some good investments. The best way to protect my investment was to keep an eye on my property. If you have an empty unit for more then a month, sometimes its just better to shut off the water. This is no different then your home. My two cents.
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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another story, I was on vacation and had a tenant "accidentally" leave the tub running while it was plugged. That water ran for 2 days, the tenant and her boyfriend got in a financial fight, and both moved out. This applies to more then just a toilet.

I'm not going to get snarky here, because I don't want to ruin the vibe of this forum. Thanks for the insight and congratulations on your investments in Chicago.
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kellzey




Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 580
Location: Orlando, FL


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another story. We had friends that lived in both Canada and had a home here in Florida. They spent months at either location.

One of the outside hoses was left running (for weeks on end). They received a $2000 water bill. They disputed it, but were not able to get it lowered.

This was 15 years ago... I can't imagine how much it would be now as water prices have skyrocketed.

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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crush,

What sort of signal does the sensor need to feed the timer with. I'm looking at a few, and am clueless as to what the alarm needs to start counting.

When the alarm isn't receiving an "on" signal from the flow sensor, will it reset? Sorry for the misinformed questions, any input would help...

I was thinking something like this...

https://estore.industrialcontrolsonline.com/Customer/incodi/specpages/MM-601C%5B1%5D.pdf
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berzai@sbcglobal.net




Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a quick update, I have the flow sensor connected to a 3/4" solenoid. If a given amount of water is used within a given time, the solenoid closes. If the power goes out in the property, the solenoid closes (NC). A simple reset button is included. A bypass is also included for when the power goes out, but you still need water (in my case for the backup sump pump which runs on water pressure.)

I will be trial testing this in 10 of my rentals, fingers crossed...
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