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Fuller's ESB
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MikeOH



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I just brewed up a batch of this ESB. It's my second batch so far in the new EB set up. First batch... well, I made some procedural errors and had some errors in my calculations. Ended up with small batch but by sheer luck, still ended up being pretty good. This time, all the numbers came out far better. The system worked as advertised.

This batch should be on tap in a couple of weeks...
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know how it turns out Mike!

Kal

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MikeOH



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ESB turned out great. (drinking one right now, in fact!) It is a very smooth beer. I have it at about 1.5 vol of CO2. I'd love to run this with pure N2 or at least beergas. Maybe in the future. Still a really enjoyable ale. Most certainly on the "will brew again" list.
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stickyfinger



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Yes - I did a split batch of this recipe some years back where half was Fullers yeast (WY1968) and the other half was S-04. I was hoping that S-04 would get me close enough / that I'd like it enough to use it from now on for my ESBs and Bitters as it's so much easier to use dry yeast.

Unfortunately I found I really preferred the fruity smoothness of WY1968 over S-04, so I'm sticking with WY1968/WLP002.

YMMV of course. There was nothing "wrong" with the S-04, I simply greatly preferred the WY1968.

Kal


As a followup to the S-04/WY1968 discussion, I just did an ordinary bitter using S-04. I had high hopes, but from the get-go, it had an odd flavor. I sampled it after a week and found that it had a little diacetyl and some sourness. It also had some sulfur character. It is possible that I had an infected batch, but it maybe be that the S-04 pack was bad. I have used S-04 in the past with great results, but this time either it was not good yeast or my batch got infected. I have since read a bunch of posts indicating that people have had different off-flavors with S-04. I am going to avoid it from now on I think and use liquid English strains instead.
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68GTSDart



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Plainfield IL


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi first time poster,
I have a few questions for Kal. First off Fuller's ESB may very well be my favorite beer, thanks for the recipe. I just brewed this four days ago. I did the ratio of Maris Otter to 90L caramel malt at about 94/6. I noticed that the beer came out quite a bit lighter than Fuller's. I was wondering if you think they put a dash of roasted barley or another specialty malt in their recipe to achieve that color. I also did not get British crystal malt, my brew shop only had american caramel. I got 90L though, do you think that will make much of a difference? I also did the water augmentation as you described too. Wasn't exact but pretty close. Kept the sulphate to chloride ratio at 2/1 (or close to). Well anyway thanks for all the help, as I said Fuller's is probably my favorite beer, would love to get the recipe down as close as I can. I know I can tweek it to fit my taste more later, but I would really like to nail down their recipe first if at all possible. Once again thanks for the help, your write up was very concise and clear,

Aaron
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

68GTSDart wrote:
First off Fuller's ESB may very well be my favorite beer, thanks for the recipe. I just brewed this four days ago. I did the ratio of Maris Otter to 90L caramel malt at about 94/6. I noticed that the beer came out quite a bit lighter than Fuller's.

That is interesting. I do a 92.7 / 7.3 ratio and find my colour's spot on with the commercial version (about ~13 SRM). I tried changing the ratio to 94/6 and it only dropped to about 12.4 SRM so it should still be close. Are you sure you used MO and 90L caramel malt? One of them may not have been what you think.

Quote:
I was wondering if you think they put a dash of roasted barley or another specialty malt in their recipe to achieve that color.

Not to my knowledge.

Quote:
I also did not get British crystal malt, my brew shop only had american caramel. I got 90L though, do you think that will make much of a difference?

Likely not. For something more authentic it's recommend to source ingredients in the same country as the beer you're trying to replicate. Whether you'd actually notice a difference would depend on how different the malts in question are, how much is used, how perceptive the drinker is, etc.

Quote:
Well anyway thanks for all the help, as I said Fuller's is probably my favorite beer, would love to get the recipe down as close as I can.

Excellent! It's one of my favourites too and one of the reasons I got into all-grain brewing.

Welcome to the forum!

Kal

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68GTSDart



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Plainfield IL


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm positive it was Maris Otter, Thomas Fawcett to be exact. I could also be hyper critical at this point. I'll go grab some Fuller's perhaps its closer in color than I first thought.

I ended up using the 68 ESB yeast, fermented at 68F for 3 days then brought it up to 70F, Im going to leave it on the yeast in primary until I reach terminal gravity, or for about 2 weeks. Do you think that is enough time for the yeast to clean up after itself? Also you said you dry hop for 7 days, I guess that means you employ a secondary fermentation? After you dry hop in secondary for 7 days, do you just rack to a keg and serve when the desired CO2 volumes has been achieved, or do you let it mature? I believe I read somewhere that bitters are suppose to be drank relatively young.

Sorry for all the questions, just want to do this one properly. Thanks for all your help and the quick reply. I'll definitely post how this one turns out when I tap the keg,

Aaron.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

68GTSDart wrote:
I ended up using the 68 ESB yeast, fermented at 68F for 3 days then brought it up to 70F, Im going to leave it on the yeast in primary until I reach terminal gravity, or for about 2 weeks. Do you think that is enough time for the yeast to clean up after itself?

Should be fine.

Quote:
Also you said you dry hop for 7 days, I guess that means you employ a secondary fermentation? After you dry hop in secondary for 7 days, do you just rack to a keg and serve when the desired CO2 volumes has been achieved, or do you let it mature? I believe I read somewhere that bitters are suppose to be drank relatively young.

After fermentation is 100% done (gravity doesn't move for ~3 days) I leave another few days then rack to 5 gallon glass carboys purged with CO2 and add the dry hops there and leave for ~7 days. I then rack to a keg (also purged with CO2). No fining needed with this yeast.

I the put it in my conditioning fridge which is at ~32F and carb it up. Perfect after about a month or so.

I have some of this ESB on tap now and it's been there for almost a year. Still tastes fantastic.

Kal

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silverbrewer



Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Birmingham UK


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has been a fair amount of discussion on here regarding dry hopping.
I have been doing it slightly differently as I have made peristaltic pumps, which need no priming, and will pump up to a serious pressure.
I have one of the pumps gently sucking the beer from a corny in the conditioning fridge, through a "Hop Rocket" full of the dry hops, and back to the corny. If there are two cornies, I fit a 1/2" tube from corny to corny to siphon the fluids level, then suck from one corny and return the beer to the other. The flow is set quite slow.
I also do this via 1/2" tubes with the boiler hops. It makes clean ups a bit easier.
https://youtu.be/zyKv5PQuR-U
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Topdollar



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 65



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I the put it in my conditioning fridge which is at ~32F and carb it up. Perfect after about a month or so.

I have some of this ESB on tap now and it's been there for almost a year. Still tastes fantastic.


Not specific to this style of beer, but I was interested in also dropping my kezzer down to 32-34 to avoid the condensation issue. It seems carbonation calculators go out the window for these temps. Any suggestions? I've got quite the range of beer in there right now...your Electic Sessionable IPA and London Pride (which I'm trying to barely carb at all as I just have Co2).
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topdollar wrote:
Not specific to this style of beer, but I was interested in also dropping my kezzer down to 32-34 to avoid the condensation issue. It seems carbonation calculators go out the window for these temps. Any suggestions?

They do. I would simply set it low, like 3-5 PSI, wait ~2 weeks, see if that pours well. If not carb'ed enough, turn it up a bit. I have two regulators for 8 taps: I find I like my my higher carb'ed beers (Wit, Weizen, Light lagers, etc) with the regulator set to 7-8 PSI and the lower carb'ed beers (IPA, English styles, etc) set to about 3-5 PSI.

Kal

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Topdollar



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 65



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lordy...I have 4 secondary regulators for 2 taps (...future expansion?) currently mounted "in" the keezer. Thinking I might move them outside as they just aren't very responsive when cold. I'll give your values a whirl. Side note - where do you have your probe? Have my stuck to the side of a keg with some insulation.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topdollar wrote:
Side note - where do you have your probe? Have my stuck to the side of a keg with some insulation.
Dangling in air. I've tried packed in rice, and many other things. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter as long as the beer comes out at the temp you want at the carb levels you want.

Kal

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stickyfinger



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

68GTSDart wrote:
Hi first time poster,
I have a few questions for Kal. First off Fuller's ESB may very well be my favorite beer, thanks for the recipe. I just brewed this four days ago. I did the ratio of Maris Otter to 90L caramel malt at about 94/6. I noticed that the beer came out quite a bit lighter than Fuller's. I was wondering if you think they put a dash of roasted barley or another specialty malt in their recipe to achieve that color. I also did not get British crystal malt, my brew shop only had american caramel. I got 90L though, do you think that will make much of a difference? I also did the water augmentation as you described too. Wasn't exact but pretty close. Kept the sulphate to chloride ratio at 2/1 (or close to). Well anyway thanks for all the help, as I said Fuller's is probably my favorite beer, would love to get the recipe down as close as I can. I know I can tweek it to fit my taste more later, but I would really like to nail down their recipe first if at all possible. Once again thanks for the help, your write up was very concise and clear,

Aaron


I just listened to the Can You Brew It shows on Fuller's Beers. They are very, very interesting. I would highly recommend that you listen to them if you are a Fullers fan. Two guys went to the brewery to get information, and they tasted samples from the brewery and compared pasteurized and unpasteurized versions. They also seemed to think the parti-gyle method could be a great aid in making the beers. They also tried the crazy Fullers fermentation profile. I'm not sure what all was really important, as they only brewed the beers twice, but it is a lot of food for thought.

One confusing thing is that I am not sure if they actually used the same crystal malt that Fullers uses. The brewer said he used "150", and I assumed he meant 150 EBC. The CYBI guys seemed to think that was around 70-80L, but I used an online calculator and it said 150 EBC is around 56L. In any case, they recommended Simpson's crystal. You could try it with medium or dark. I think they used the dark stuff on the show.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1620/

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1621/

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1633/
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68GTSDart



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Plainfield IL


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the posts Stickeyfinger, I'll definitely give those three shows a listening to. All the additional help to nail down this beer is appreciated. As I said, I'll let everyone know my thoughts on it, as compared to the commercial version as soon as its done.
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stickyfinger



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also a show on the Fullers 1845 beer that is supposed to be good on CYBI.
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68GTSDart



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Plainfield IL


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all, just wanted to report back I was definitely being a little too critical, I think the color is a lot closer than I thought, tell me what you think. I went out and bought some Fuller's ESB to compare. Thats Fuller's in the glass I'm holding and the clone on the right.


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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10205
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the clone still in a 5-6 gallon carboy? If yes, you can't compare colours at all to that in a small glass. Beer in greater volume will always appear darker since you're looking through a lot more of it. To compare colours you need to use two containers of identical depth.

Kal

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stickyfinger



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, the carboy will appear darker. the longer distance the light passes through, the darker the beer will appear. let your beer carb up, pour it and then compare it with the commercial version.

i thought it was interesting in the CYBI show that they said that the dark caramel character in the commercial version is probably at least partially due to pasteurization. They compared an unpasteurized version with a pasteurized version straight from the brewery in London to the clone that they tried, and the clone matched the unpasteurized version much more. if you want more of that deep, dark caramel (raisiny, prune, slight burnt) character, you can try to add some other malts.

By the way, if you like Fullers ESB, you would probably like this beer I came up with. It is about 95% Munich Malt 10L and about 5% either Special B or Crystal 120L. It has that deep malt character and the raisiny flavor. It is very malty and delicious. you can pitch it with English yeast and make it into a Scottish Export or pitch it with lager yeast and call it a Munich Dunkel. Very delicious.
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68GTSDart



Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Plainfield IL


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know it will be quite a bit lighter in color when it is put in a pint class as oppose to a 6 gallon carboy, but my initial thoughts that it was too light I think were too critical. Im sure the clone will be lighter in color considering they are almost the same color in the picture, and the clone is in a 6 gallon vessel, and Fuller's is in a glass, but I'm not too concerned any more. For some reason I thought the color was way off, as I said this made me feel a lot better. I'm much, much, more concerned with flavor and aroma than color anyways.

Stinckyfinger...
That beer sounds somewhat interesting, never really used Munich as a base malt. I like the idea of a raisiny flavor. I take it that is acquired from the Special B or Crystal 120L? If I ever brew it I'll let you know how it turns out. I would definitely use an English yeast.

The next time I brew this I may boil down some first runnings into a syrup consistency, and return it to the boil later in the boil. I do that for my RIS and Scottish Ales, but I'll see how this turns out first before tampering.
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